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News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Discussion concerning level crossings

Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:15 pm

Network Rail has put out a press statement which can be read in the link below:-

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk ... l-crossing
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby Yabbadabba » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:27 pm

We also know that the new signalling has been commissioned and the old gates are no longer interlocked with the signalling. To go back would require all new signalling to be drawn up, verified, put out to tender, implemented and commissioned. Or we could just progress with the MCB-OD for which the new signalling was designed for. Either way that crossing will have to remain closed for months now until this matter is resolved. Just repairing the gates is not an option now as they are no longer connected to the signalling or detected. In theory you could push them wide open with green signals in both directions and know one would know about it.
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:38 am

However with the box nearby which is listed, interlocking the gates with the signalling whilst time consuming and expensive in terms of man-hours would from a technical point of view be easy by using a lever or maybe two in the box with the original interlocking to the gate levers (the original signals which protected the gates could have electric lever lock/controllers added if not already present to apply the required locking and apply controls to the new protecting signals).

Perhaps NR should offer this solution to the local council at the councils expense (including the cost of the crossing keepers salary).
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby Yabbadabba » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:49 pm

The UP protecting signal wasn't slotted in the old arrangements, as the protecting signal was an extra signal added into the original signal section when the temporary work around was put in place 30old years ago when the AHBs were never installed. Three Bridges ASC never had any control or slot over T800 signal until it was repositioned and converted into a true controlled signal with its own signal section and crossing to protect, instead of just being an extra signal In the T648 to T646 signal section. T646 was then reduced to a distant signal status as there was insufficient braking distance between T800 and T646 if it were to retain its red aspect. The Down signal T645 was always a Semi Auto signal as it also protected plumpton ground frame which itself was with the overlap of T643 signal, all of which has now been resignalled.

Of course a technical solution will be found in the end, the only two unknowns are, how long will it take and how much extra money will it cost.
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby AndyB » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:06 pm

It is possible to interlock the frame in the box so that the protecting signals will not clear unless a detector proves that a lever is either reversed or normal to prove that the gates are locked against the road, however alterations to the (SSI or relay) interlocking are expensive.

I'm not sure however that it would be of as great a degree as Yabbadabba suggests. It could probably be done as a variation to the ongoing works, particularly if it is left in such a way that switching over to OD is as simple as changing a connection in the interlocking - the reason for this suggestion is that the signalling work will not be complete until it is proven that the level crossing works to design and interfaces correctly with the running signals.

In the end, though, and together with the money spent employing crossing keepers, it is all a waste of money compared to completing the work and starting the payback period for the crossing installation.

(Don't get me wrong. I like traditional level crossings, but with the allergy of the general public to paying more than they absolutely must to fund the railways (or the NHS, or anything else they demand) and the allergy of governments to asking people with spare cash to pay more, transferring to automatic and remote control is now an imperative...)
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby John Hinson » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:14 pm

Ok, folks, that's enough opinion for now. I know you mean well but this is a political hot potato that I feel is best kept out of.

I did ask on the previous page for all to stick to just reporting facts. Let those directly involved find the solution via their own channels.

I have my scissors at the ready to snip further posts.

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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:15 pm

On the 15th December Lewes District Council gave temporary permission for the removal of the gates and the upgrade of the crossing to MCB OD subject to conditions (with reasons given):-

1. The gates, operating mechanism and all associated operating equipment (sufficient to enable full reinstatement of the gates, operating mechanism and all associated operating equipment) shall be reinstated within 6 months of the date of any refusal notice issued under application LW/15/0867 or within 6 months of the date of any decision notice refusing an Appeal (including any appeal to a higher court in the event that an appeal is refused) for application LW/15/0538 or LW/15/0867 whichever is the later.

Reason: To protect the historic setting of the listed building and the heritage asset having regard to Policy H02 of the Lewes District Local Plan and to comply with National Policy Guidance contained in the National Planning Policy Framework 2012.

2. No development shall take place until the developer has submitted a Written Scheme of Investigation (WSI) detailing how the investigation and recording of the gates and associated mechanism will take place and that WSI has been approved in writing by the LPA. A full report including written description photographs, plans, layout plans, and scaled drawings recording the gates and all associated equipment and mechanisms associated with their operation in situ, and which would need to be removed to facilitate the new crossing, shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority within 3 months of the removal of the gates and equipment.

Reason: To ensure that an accurate and detailed record is made of the items of historical significance and in order to comply with the National Planning Policy Framework 2012,and Policy H02 of the Lewes District Local Plan.

3. No development shall take place until the developer has submitted details for the safe removal and storage of the gates and all other associated and removed equipment in a location that prevents damage or deterioration of the said items, and such details have been approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority.

Reason: To ensure the safe removal and storage of the heritage asset having regard to Policy H02 of the Lewes District Local Plan and to comply with the National Planning Policy Framework 2012.
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby LlaniGraham » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:38 pm

Yee Gods!!!
They really don't have a clue!!
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Re: News from Plumpton (Sussex)

Unread postby MRFS » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:24 pm

From the Plumpton page on Facebook tonight (13/1/16)

Our campaign to save the design of our Level Crossing is over.

Cllrs voted 7:2 in favour of the new automated barriers.

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