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MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:27 pm
by Paul_G
Hi Folks,

Has anyone a drawing of a MR Gate wheel or a ref to same?
Needed for The Railway sig sim

Thanks

Paul G

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:34 am
by John Hinson
Hi Paul,

I had held back hoping somebody could come up with a drawing but can tell you what I know. The Midland used what is often called a "table wheel" and I think this was a type designed and marketed by the Railway Signal Company so was to be found on some other railways too. They were similar, if not identical, to the type illustrated at Spalding here: http://www.signalbox.org/gallery/e/spalding1.php .

I don't have access to all my records at the moment but I will see if I can find a better picture on my computer here - but meanwhile somebody may now recognise the type and find a drawing.

John

PS - just found this, probably the best picture I can find of one in a Midland box:
http://shop.studio433.co.uk/index.php?r ... ct_id=7686

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:22 am
by Mike Hodgson
Fascinating shots John, particularly those miniature levers for the electric mechanisms in that page which I hadn't noticed before. Presumably one had to disengage the electric motors somehow before falling back to the mechanical gate crab - and vice versa. Not apparent from the photos, but I assume the wheel drives through a worm gear.

Whilst the main parts of those two mechanisms do look very similar, they are not identical in appearance, Spalding's castings look rather heavier. There's a much more obvious difference in style between the two wheels themselves, which I guess would matter for Paul's purpose. Spalding has a much heavier looking cast wheel with straight spokes whilst the Langham wheel has curved spokes, and there is also a cover over the gear linkage to the main lever.

I wonder whether the heavier winding mechanism was simply a bigger model more appropriate to gates that were particularly heavy and complex, or whether it was just a manufacturing difference at different dates with perhaps different gear ratios used where more leverage was required. It is quite clear that rodding linkages and runs could not be standardised because of differences in the crossing geometry etc, so I suspect there would also have been a fair bit of detail variation in the gate wheels too, quite apart from the differences between competing signalling contractors,

Some other gatewheels I have seen (quite possibly only other types of mechanism for other companies) had what I call a Ship's Wheel - ie with handles protruding past the wheel rim as extensions to each of the spokes. Would this style of wheel also be used on these RSC mechanisms?

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 2, 2016 9:29 am
by ACFIELD
If you are able to get to Derby there is an original MR gate wheel in the 'signal box display' on the first floor of the Derby Silk Mill Museum. But hurry, this display is about to be dismantled as part of a revamp of that floor.
There is/was also one in the demonstration signal box (ex Langham I think) on the Swanwick Junction site of the Butterley railway.

I also have been on the look out for a drawing of one (for years), for research purposes, but can not seem to find one.

Tony Overton

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 2, 2016 11:21 am
by Pete2320
Mike Hodgson wrote:Some other gatewheels I have seen (quite possibly only other types of mechanism for other companies) had what I call a Ship's Wheel - ie with handles protruding past the wheel rim as extensions to each of the spokes. Would this style of wheel also be used on these RSC mechanisms?

The various screw type gatewheels are quit low geared and so the wheel is turned quite fast, generally with a "crank" handle on the wheel. The ships wheel types are probably rack and pinion types which tend to be heavier to operate and it is sometimes easier to work them "hand over hand".

Pete

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 2, 2016 1:03 pm
by Paul_G
HI Guys,

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

The type John illustrated is the one I have in mind (mangle wheel style).
There is a frame in the demo box at Swanwick Junc, MRC, but it does not appear to be complete and access is difficult nowadays.

If I can get in and do some measurements I will post a sketch for anyone interested.

Thanks again

Paul G

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 2, 2016 1:37 pm
by Paul_G
This image from Alan Bullimore shows a side view


https://flic.kr/p/LCjcKc

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 2, 2016 8:26 pm
by Mike Hodgson
Paul_G wrote: (mangle wheel style).
I like that description. Seems appropriate when the motorists fail to stop ! :lol:

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 3, 2016 12:08 am
by Paul_G
Not sure if I can upload images

Model of MR Gate Wheel, would welcome any critique

Cheers

Paul G

Image

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:03 pm
by Shed 34F
Sorry, i can't help with a drawing; however here's the gate wheel at Sleaford West, believed to be the last operational gate wheel in the East Midlands on Network Rail.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149157094@N04/32626943553/in/dateposted-public/

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:23 pm
by John Hinson
Shed 34F wrote:Sorry, i can't help with a drawing; however here's the gate wheel at Sleaford West, believed to be the last operational gate wheel in the East Midlands on Network Rail.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149157094@N04/32626943553/in/dateposted-public/

. . . and Northorpe?

John

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:36 pm
by Shed 34F
John Hinson wrote:
Shed 34F wrote:Sorry, i can't help with a drawing; however here's the gate wheel at Sleaford West, believed to be the last operational gate wheel in the East Midlands on Network Rail.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149157094@N04/32626943553/in/dateposted-public/

. . . and Northorpe?

John

Chapeau John. I was thinking from the Network Rail management defined areas (shame on me). Northorpe does not come under the East Midlands area in that sense; it comes under LNE Central area. It's probably easier not to dwell on such trivial information.

Meanwhile here's a picture of the gate wheel in the (former) signal box at Fiskerton Junction. Yet a different design style to those in other MR boxes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149157094 ... ed-public/

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:58 pm
by Pete2320
Shed 34F wrote:Meanwhile here's a picture of the gate wheel in the (former) signal box at Fiskerton Junction. Yet a different design style to those in other MR boxes.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/149157094 ... ed-public/

I believe that is another Railway Signal Company design, coincidentally the same as at Northorpe. As they made everything else, I'd be surprised if the Midland Railway didn't make there own and probably to there own design.

Re: MR Gate Wheel Drawing

Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:27 am
by John Hinson
Remember that Fiskerton Junction was an LMS box and not of Midland origin. I have seen other LMS boxes with similar gate wheels. I think they are basically L&NWR ones.

Comparing photographs I do not think this type is quite the same as that at Northorpe although very similar in many ways.

John