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A very simple question...

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A very simple question...

Unread postby guard_jamie » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:51 pm

Gentlemen (and Ladies),

A very quick question, just seeking confirmation really - BR(W) bracket signal, on a single line for a point. Right arm reads for the main, Left arm reads for a goods yard.

Right arm - 4'

Left arm - 3'?
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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby Stuart Johnson » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:31 pm

For a goods line, a 3' arm. For a goods yard, ie sidings, a disc at the foot of the post.
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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby guard_jamie » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:28 am

How rigidly was this stuck to? Whilst I'm aware practise on a heritage railway may not always match the rules of the past, I can think of two examples on the SVR where 3' arms read into a yard - and I believe one of them to be a pre-preservation installation.
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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:42 am

guard_jamie wrote:How rigidly was this stuck to? Whilst I'm aware practise on a heritage railway may not always match the rules of the past, I can think of two examples on the SVR where 3' arms read into a yard - and I believe one of them to be a pre-preservation installation.

In truth, facing movements into yards on the GW were rare and they mostly occurred on single lines. In such situations, the assumption was that trains backed in, so the disc would be placed at the points and not on the protecting running signal, and wouldn't even require the operation of the Facing Point Lock - see http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=717 for an example.

Later practice would see the discs associated with the home signal - see http://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=58 . (Sorry about the poor scan quality!)

Offhand I can't think of locations with arms leading into sidings but I don't doubt there were some - for every rule there is always an exception! But I would disregard "heritage" railway situations as many try to mix old and modern practices, which don't always sit together smoothly.

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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby Chris Osment » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:07 am

Offhand I can't think of locations with arms leading into sidings but I don't doubt there were some - for every rule there is always an exception!


As indeed there were..... :) At both Hatch and Ilminster (on the Chard branch) the Down Home was a 3-doll bracket, with the centre arm reading for the main. At Hatch the RH arm read for the Goods Loop, the LH arm for the yard, whilst at Ilminster both side arms read into sidings. Perhaps it was the case, certainly at Hatch, that with a bracket of at least 2-dolls needed in order to have an arm into the Loop, then having a third doll for the yard just seemed more practical than suing a ground-disc?

And what about the situation at Helston, where the Up Starting had a bracketed arm reading into the loco shed siding? Not 'goods' perhaps, but certainly a siding rather than a 'line' surely.
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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Sun Nov 3, 2013 7:17 pm

Here are some extract sheets from the BR-WR Technical Instruction No. A13 for Tubular Signals (dated 1955/56):

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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Sun Nov 3, 2013 7:29 pm

....and here is a photograph of a typical Main to Goods Loop bracket signal (Par Down Home No.2) - (Note the 'Kidney' Plates on the 3ft arm fitted to reduce the size of the spectacle and hence light output):

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Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:48 pm

....and here is an example using discs (Goonbarrow Junction Main Arm No.24 Down Main Inner Home, Upper Disc No.20 to Down Sidings and Lower Disc No.23 to Bugle Siding):

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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby Adrian the Rock » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:41 pm

There's a 3' arm at Worcester SH that leads into the diesel depot. I'd have thought that was more akin to a yard than a goods line.
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Re: A very simple question...

Unread postby Tulyar15 » Sun Dec 1, 2013 3:24 pm

At Colwall, on the Hereford - Worcester line, the Up Staring signal used to have a bracket with a 3' arm for a facing connection into the Goods Yard
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