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Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:47 pm
by John Webb
I recently purchased the Hornby LMS Signal box model R9725. It's obviously a Midland Railway one, albeit the finials are rather oversize.
From the front there is nothing unusual:
Image

But a view from the other end and of the back shows a most unusual access:
Image
I've never seen a photo of an MR box with this sort of access. Is there a prototype for this box that anyone knows of and can give me information about, please?

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:52 pm
by JRB
It certainly looks prototype-inspired and not the sort of thing they'd invent.

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:50 pm
by Mike Hodgson
The Airfix one was of course based on Oakham LC and has quite a lot of variation from the prototype, mainly to reduce the fragility of the mouldings. The Hornby one will have made similar adjustments, although the model industry seems to be more accurate now than it used to be.

It's quite possible the MR would have altered their standard design to suit particular requirements at a given location. The small window on the operating floor also looks unusual, as though it was placed for viewing a level crossing from a gatewheel, like the preserved example at Ramsbottom LYR. There might not have been room for the stairs in the usual position at that end because of tight clearance with the crossing, and they probably wouldn't want them at the "wrong" end of the box for the crossing. The door is still reasonably placed for the end of the frame, if there is a space between frame and gatewheel.

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:49 pm
by Richard Pike
It most certainly isn't Langham Junction but the access via the back wall is the same.

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:11 pm
by John Hinson
Brent Junction No1 had a rear staircase as the structure was extended. But when it was that shape and size the staircase would have been in the conventional position! So if it based on that, it isn't consistent!

John

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:06 pm
by John White
Mantle Lane is (was ?) similar to your model, although a mirror image.
Hope this helps,

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:07 pm
by Chris L
Mantle Lane's still there at the moment John - think the latest proposed date of its doom is 2017, though that of course is subject to the usual caveats. Another box I used to live near to!

Chris.

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:19 am
by RDNA
I seem to remember that Bell Lane (Leicester) had the door in the left had corner (seen from outside) of the rear wall, there were two flights of stairs, one up the embankment to track level and another from track level to the door.

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:57 am
by Fast Line Floyd
The model is also the correct (as far as the photo can be judged) size for Bell Lane.

Graham

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:59 am
by Chris Osment
Maybe you have thought of. tried this already, but....

why not ask Hornby about the prototype? :P

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:19 pm
by JRB
No harm in asking, but my experience suggests that you should treat any replies with caution.

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:45 pm
by John Hinson
It us not a faithful reproduction of Mantle Lane, bacause it has the wrong pattern windows (short windows at end of box, small panes), and has a locking-room window where there isn't one. It also has a mysterious window (not found at Mantle Lane) near to operating floor level which I'll wager was provided on the prototype to allow removal of the frame rods to change levers.

See http://shop.studio433.co.uk/index.php?r ... uct_id=555

John

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:01 pm
by John Webb
Chris Osment wrote:Maybe you have thought of. tried this already, but....

why not ask Hornby about the prototype? :P

I contacted Hornby at the beginning of October, and refrained from posting on here until well over a week after I had asked Hornby. So I thought that I'd ask on here and it looks like I've got responses before Hornby has attempted a reply!

So my thanks to all for the responses. But if someone could tell me where Bell Lane is I'd be grateful!

John - re the mysterious window being possibly provided for removal of the frame rods; were these provided on other boxes? At St Albans South we simply have two holes in the end wall!

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:34 pm
by John Hinson
John Webb wrote:John - re the mysterious window being possibly provided for removal of the frame rods; were these provided on other boxes? At St Albans South we simply have two holes in the end wall!

It was usually just holes, but if the frame has been enlarged so that the frame went right up to the end wall, a door had to be provided to access the nuts. I can only think of small doors (the old Harpenden Junction had them) but it is entirely possible some had glazing, not that it would be of any benefit.

John

Re: Identifying the prototype of a model

Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:06 am
by Pete2320
John Hinson wrote:
John Webb wrote:John - re the mysterious window being possibly provided for removal of the frame rods; were these provided on other boxes? At St Albans South we simply have two holes in the end wall!

It was usually just holes, but if the frame has been enlarged so that the frame went right up to the end wall, a door had to be provided to access the nuts. I can only think of small doors (the old Harpenden Junction had them) but it is entirely possible some had glazing, not that it would be of any benefit.

John


Personally I feel that this end window, if it has any basis in a prototype, was level crossing related. I have come across the standard small sash used horizontally like this but not in this position. Unfortunately I can't remember where!
I think we are agreed that the rear door was not all that rare if not typical. A couple more examples are Guisley Junction and Methley Sidings. These were both on embankments which may or may not be coincidence.
At the end of the day the model seems somewhat freelance- or unique!. It appears to be a "Type 2" box but comprising two 15ft front panels but this seems not to have been done. The model also has three deep window panes in the shallower end windows, something else I have never come across, and confirmed in "The Signal Box" - which also has a picture of Treeton South with the horizontal small sash, albeit in the locking room.
John W, Bell Lane was in Leicester.

Pete