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LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

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LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Longsidephil » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:19 pm

Hi,

does anyone know of any supplier that sells FCPs for OO gauge?.. I have done the usual Google searches and looked at the MSE website but to no avail.

Phil
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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:46 pm

I've never seen such things modelled in any scale. There just isn't that much interest in signalling on the part of most modellers.
It strikes me as the sort of product that might be practical to produce on demand using a 3D-printer, if you can get a good CAD drawing of one and persuade somebody who is into that technology. Same goes for such lineside furniture as fogmen's repeaters, detonator placers
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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Longsidephil » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:32 pm

Thanks Mike,

the 3D idea is one I'd not thought about, I'll look into it.... anyone got a CAD diagram? I've got the diagram on page 55 of LMS Signals (pictorial record)... but I think the design I'm after is slightly later as I am hoping to model 1950s/60s.

I have posted another thread asking for pictures of FCPs in the hope that they might help as well. I suppose that at 3ft they are only 12mm high in OO scale and probably insignificant to most people, although there are more and more lineside items available like point rodding etc.

I'm trying to model Copy Pit which has at least two FCPs in the loop where the banking locomotives waited to bank coal trains from Yorkshire to the Lancashire power stations..... I'm a fan of Black 5s and 8Fs so it's right up my street.

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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:38 am

I don't imagine there were many designs of FCP about.
I suspect the big four each had their own, and any still in use at the end of steam were probably from that era anyway.
After nationalisation, I think they would be seen as old fashioned as more and more track circuiting was coming in.
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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:07 am

Mike Hodgson wrote:I don't imagine there were many designs of FCP about.
I suspect the big four each had their own, and any still in use at the end of steam were probably from that era anyway.
After nationalisation, I think they would be seen as old fashioned as more and more track circuiting was coming in.

The only major user was the LMS, and I'm not sure the GW or SR had any. Outside the LMS they could well have been custom-designed for the purpose rather than to any standard design.

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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby StevieG » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:18 am

John Hinson wrote:
Mike Hodgson wrote:I don't imagine there were many designs of FCP about.
I suspect the big four each had their own, and any still in use at the end of steam were probably from that era anyway.
After nationalisation, I think they would be seen as old fashioned as more and more track circuiting was coming in.

The only major user was the LMS, and I'm not sure the GW or SR had any. Outside the LMS they could well have been custom-designed for the purpose rather than to any standard design.

John
I never heard of the GW having any either, (couldn't say about the SR).

Never came across any in the area of the LNER/BR(E) that I knew, though there was a sort of link, only in that the latter seemed to use the white 'D' plate to indicate signals with Signal Post Telephones, while I feel sure that this had been used in at least some ex-LMS places to indicate the presence of an FCP.
[ Incidentally, is my mind playing tricks, or was "FCB" (Fireman's Call Box) also commonly used for the same equipment ? : I feel that more than once I saw "FCB" on a BR(M) signalling plan ( & even in BS376 ?).]
BZOH

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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Chris Osment » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:35 pm

Longsidephil wrote:I have posted another thread asking for pictures of FCPs in the hope that they might help as well. I suppose that at 3ft they are only 12mm high in OO scale and probably insignificant to most people, although there are more and more lineside items available like point rodding etc.


Whilst I'm familiar with the concept, I've never actually (knowingly) seen one, but I'm puzzled how a simple plunger can be 3ft tall - are we perhaps talking about the cabinet in which it was enclosed?

There is one known example of a FCP on the S&DJR (installed at Evercreech Jcn North in the 1940s), tho' as yet I've never seen a picture of it. I would guess LMS 'operational' influence on what was otherwise a SR-signalled railway (just about).
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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:38 pm

Chris Osment wrote:Whilst I'm familiar with the concept, I've never actually (knowingly) seen one, but I'm puzzled how a simple plunger can be 3ft tall - are we perhaps talking about the cabinet in which it was enclosed?

They weren't usually in a cabinet. The plunger was mounted on a stalk about 3 feet high.

The L&NWR type was referred to as a Fireman's Call Box and was a rather larger box-like contraption but still on top of a short post and should not be confused with a cabinet. A good drawing of this type exists in Richard Foster's L&NWR Signalling book.

Pictures are few and far between (more so than the devices themselves as pictures do not always show the bottom of a signal. I know I have one somewhere but it is a case of finding it . . .

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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:09 pm

Yes, as John says, very much an LMS idea, I didn't think the GWR had any and I didn't see it it as SR either. However they do get a mention in the 1935 GWR rule book (I haven't checked the SR book), but I think that might merely have been so that GWR drivers knew about them whenever they were on "foreign" metals. As Stevie says, the LNER used the "D" plate quite widely on signals but it was often in areas which didn't have the plungers (there is a thread on here about this somewhere). The LNER rule book does explain this, and the BR (1950) rule book is based on the LMS rule, and LNER appendices etc at the time said the Eastern Region ones were to be brought into line in due course.
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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby guard_jamie » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:08 pm

I would recommend modelu as a high quality service in 3D scanning, CAD design and printing, able to produce exceptionally high fidelity models down to tiny proportions. Have a Google.
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Re: LMS Firemans Call Box / Plunger - OO

Unread postby Chris Osment » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:40 pm

Chris Osment wrote:
Longsidephil wrote:There is one known example of a FCP on the S&DJR (installed at Evercreech Jcn North in the 1940s), tho' as yet I've never seen a picture of it. I would guess LMS 'operational' influence on what was otherwise a SR-signalled railway (just about).


The S&DJR example was actually marked on the box diagram as a 'Fireman's Call Box' - my apologies :oops: The FCB was marked on the LH side of the line, whereas the associated signal was on the RH side of double-track, so I guess that the FCB must have been on some sort of pillar.
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