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Signals not at fouling point

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Re: Signals not at fouling point

Unread postby MRFS » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:14 am

An interesting bit of selection there for 41A and 41B - one being colour light and the other semaphore - were 41A and 42 semaphore prior to 1964?

Does anyone have a photograph of 36/38/39?

There are also a few examples of UndergrounD signals looking as if they are in odd places on the box diagram, but being in perfectly sensible places in the flesh, as it were.
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Re: Signals not at fouling point

Unread postby Pete2320 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:57 pm

MFRS wrote
An interesting bit of selection there for 41A and 41B - one being colour light and the other semaphore - were 41A and 42 semaphore prior to 1964?

Well certainly unusual, but not a problem here bearing in mind that Hyde Junction had a power frame.
41a and 42 would have been "colour lighted" a good ten years before 1964 in connection with electrification.

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Re: Signals not at fouling point

Unread postby MRFS » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:33 pm

Pete2320 wrote: Well certainly unusual, but not a problem here bearing in mind that Hyde Junction had a power frame.


Durr. :roll: Forgot that - BPRS job wasn't it?
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Re: Signals not at fouling point

Unread postby Chris Rideout » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:56 pm

At Merstone (Isle of Wight) in Southern Railway days, signal 3 (Road no. 1 Starting to Sandown) was very close to points 12 (Road no. 1/Station Siding) and an up train stopping at the signal with the loco buffer beam level with the signal post would certainly be fouling the points. In BR days, the lower quadrant signals were replaced with upper quadrant arms and this signal (right hand side at end of island platform) was removed. The replacement was put well over to the left side close to the siding trap points but not moved back. I would imagine that anything running off the trap points would have toppled the signal post.

To return to the present day, The wrong direction (up) starting signal at Eastleigh on platform 3 (Portsmouth Loop) is just foul of the points in the marshalling yard. A few years ago, a steam train arrived and the driver stopped with the buffer beam a few centimetres past the signal post and triggered off a SPAD warning. The wheels on the leading axle had touched the track circuit block joint as he stopped. It went down on the book as a SPAD - distance 1 yard.

There was considerable discussion about why a SPAD of 1 yard was so serious. If a multiple unit driver passed a signal by 1 yard, he would not be able to see it. Yes, but what about steam locomotives? The driver is a long way back so he can still see the signal. In this case, it was the lack of overlap; a very different matter. The driver was as, far as I recall, not dealt with in a harsh fashion because of the rather bad arrangement regarding the location of the signal and block joint.
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Re: Signals not at fouling point

Unread postby edwin_m » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:24 pm

It must be difficult to judge from the cab exactly where the front of a steam loco is relative to a lineside object, and I suppose if the driver was more used to modern traction he might be subconsciously judging his braking to stop himself just short of the signal.
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Re: Signals not at fouling point

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:41 pm

Chris Rideout wrote:To return to the present day, The wrong direction (up) starting signal at Eastleigh on platform 3 (Portsmouth Loop) is just foul of the points in the marshalling yard. A few years ago, a steam train arrived and the driver stopped with the buffer beam a few centimetres past the signal post and triggered off a SPAD warning. The wheels on the leading axle had touched the track circuit block joint as he stopped. It went down on the book as a SPAD - distance 1 yard.

That suggests the block joint is in rear of the signal, for the front wheel of the locomotive would be considerably more that "few centimetres" from the front of the locomotive. That seems very wrong to me. Perhaps the locomotive passed by a little more than the crew admitted . . . a remarkably common phenomenon on the part of drivers.

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