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Yellow shunt signals

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Unread postby Benhar Jnc » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:24 pm

We may get a row, but it's a great learning journey that we're on! That's the first time that I've seen that view of Laurencekirk signals - 3 in a row (and I hope the re-opening is a big success).
...... another trip working to the Dardanelles
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Unread postby JRB » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:25 pm

It should pay out for 3 in a row.
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Unread postby ferroequine » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:40 pm

Benhar Jnc wrote:Most interesting post - I'm now waiting to see if someone pops up with an example of a two or three tiered yellow disc on the Southern, or in the South West or Wales?


I would be surprised if you could find one installed by the Western. The GWR went over to using single discs in most instances (if not all) in new work in the post WWII period and the Western Region didn't start using yellow arm discs until several years after nationalisation.
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Unread postby SDL » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:02 pm

StevieG wrote:The 'straight-ahead' route was, I think, really quite short onto a buffer stop - one loco-length only perhaps.

One loco length sounds lavish when you consider Cobh:

Image

Did they forget to change the disc's faces from yellow to red when the headshunt was removed? Oops! :oops:
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Unread postby Tulyar15 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:08 am

When did you take that pic of Cobh? I visited it in June of this year and that siding has been removed.
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Unread postby SDL » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:09 pm

When did you take that pic of Cobh? I visited it in June of this year and that siding has been removed.

I took that picture on 7 May 2001.
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Unread postby Simon Foster » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:30 pm

StevieG wrote:
SDL wrote:No, not necessarily. For example:

This 'multiple yellow shunt signals' idea also continued into early position-light days, as I remember, pre-current Crewe signalling, seeing a Crewe South Junction, double, vertically-stacked, yellow/white GPL signal at the north exit from the south carriage shed : The 'straight-ahead' route was, I think, really quite short onto a buffer stop - one loco-length only perhaps.


No multiple yellows at Carriage Sheds on the plan I have, there was a single one and a double red.
Image

I know SDL has beaten me to it and posted a plan extract, but here is his example with numbers (and the right way round!). With the numbers added, there is a logic to the separation of these signals in this way, but it is unusual. I wonder what today's Sighting Committees would have to say about it!
Image


Crewe had more yellow shunts than I've ever seen anywhere else, with seven examples (that I can see), at South. North had a yellow shunt with five-way RI.

Up to two routes were catered for with multiple heads, beyond that a single head and RI was provided (applied to red shunts as well.)
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Unread postby Chris Osment » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:07 pm

Did they forget to change the disc's faces from yellow to red when the headshunt was removed? Oops!


When the new SB was opened at Sherborne in 1960 the exit from the Down Siding was provided with a ground signal and according to the relevant Weekly Notice details from the SRS Cullum Collection this was a yellow arm - yet this led to a short trap with a sand-drag and there was a notice specifically prohibiting BR engines from proceeding over the trap road! I can remember the notice clearly, but I just can't recall if the dummy was in fact red or yellow :oops:
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Unread postby Simon Foster » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:22 pm

Chris Osment wrote:
Did they forget to change the disc's faces from yellow to red when the headshunt was removed? Oops!


When the new SB was opened at Sherborne in 1960 the exit from the Down Siding was provided with a ground signal and according to the relevant Weekly Notice details from the SRS Cullum Collection this was a yellow arm - yet this led to a short trap with a sand-drag and there was a notice specifically prohibiting BR engines from proceeding over the trap road! I can remember the notice clearly, but I just can't recall if the dummy was in fact red or yellow :oops:


Up until the early 80s, one end of the trailing crossover at Furness Vale was protected by an L&NWR rotating disc, fitted with the later LMS 'targets'. This signal was provided because the set back move was towards the level crossing, the other end was unsignalled.

From a passing train, the On target always had a distinctly yellow look about it, which obviously couldn't be right. After the signal had been replaced with a boring LMS disc, the old one turned up in Guide Bridge S&T depot yard, where all became clear; the yellow colour was the original enamel, which had been pained over with red years previously. There was some red paint left, but not much more than a few flakes.
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Unread postby Aitken » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:34 pm

Simon Foster wrote:
Chris Osment wrote:
Did they forget to change the disc's faces from yellow to red when the headshunt was removed? Oops!


When the new SB was opened at Sherborne in 1960 the exit from the Down Siding was provided with a ground signal and according to the relevant Weekly Notice details from the SRS Cullum Collection this was a yellow arm - yet this led to a short trap with a sand-drag and there was a notice specifically prohibiting BR engines from proceeding over the trap road! I can remember the notice clearly, but I just can't recall if the dummy was in fact red or yellow :oops:


Up until the early 80s, one end of the trailing crossover at Furness Vale was protected by an L&NWR rotating disc, fitted with the later LMS 'targets'. This signal was provided because the set back move was towards the level crossing, the other end was unsignalled.

From a passing train, the On target always had a distinctly yellow look about it, which obviously couldn't be right. After the signal had been replaced with a boring LMS disc, the old one turned up in Guide Bridge S&T depot yard, where all became clear; the yellow colour was the original enamel, which had been pained over with red years previously. There was some red paint left, but not much more than a few flakes.


There's a disc at Stonehaven which could be red or yellow - I have no idea - it is a sort of orangey colour. I've never yet had the chance to establish which it's supposed to be.
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Unread postby SDL » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:37 pm

Aitken wrote:There's a disc at Stonehaven which could be red or yellow - I have no idea - it is a sort of orangey colour. I've never yet had the chance to establish which it's supposed to be.

Whereabouts? Officially there are two yellow discs at Stonehaven, both in the Up Sidings.
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Unread postby Aitken » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:49 pm

SDL wrote:
Aitken wrote:There's a disc at Stonehaven which could be red or yellow - I have no idea - it is a sort of orangey colour. I've never yet had the chance to establish which it's supposed to be.

Whereabouts? Officially there are two yellow discs at Stonehaven, both in the Up Sidings.


Thanks! It would be on the Up side - on the road which the wagon fell off if I remember correctly. It's years since I was in Stonehaven...
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Unread postby Benhar Jnc » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:58 pm

Looking at Alan Robert's website it looks as though a yellow ground signal was to be found at Conway - Down Siding - Lever No.12. Not sure if in real life it was a disc or miniature arm. So does Wales joins the list?
...... another trip working to the Dardanelles
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Unread postby StevieG » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:52 pm

Simon Foster wrote:
StevieG wrote:
SDL wrote:No, not necessarily. For example:

This 'multiple yellow shunt signals' idea also continued into early position-light days, as I remember, pre-current Crewe signalling, seeing a Crewe South Junction, double, vertically-stacked, yellow/white GPL signal at the north exit from the south carriage shed : The 'straight-ahead' route was, I think, really quite short onto a buffer stop - one loco-length only perhaps.


No multiple yellows at Carriage Sheds on the plan I have, there was a single one and a double red. ........

Oh dear. Memories might be confused then. The one I thought I had in mind did have a red equivalent to its left, but from this diagram extract, I could have been muddling up 103(Y) from Carriage 2 plus 101A alongside, with 182A & B from Carriage 1.

On the other hand, what date is that diagram? - What I think I'm recalling would have been around 1971-74 I think.

Things can change of course : For example, on what can be discerned from the diag.extract, it looks like 182A might have been a later addition to 182(B).

And there looks to have been a divergence at 96 points that could have later justified 103A being doubled-up, but without the rest of the diagram (& possibly not even then) whether there really was more than one route signalled, can't be determined.
I made several attempts at a photograph of the (or a) yellow signal reading out of the Carriage, but I can't be sure where to put my hands on it at the moment, to prove one way or the other.
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Unread postby SDL » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:07 pm

StevieG wrote:Things can change of course : For example, on what can be discerned from the diag.extract, it looks like 182A might have been a later addition to 182(B).
And there looks to have been a divergence at 96 points that could have later justified 103A being doubled-up, but without the rest of the diagram (& possibly not even then) whether there really was more than one route signalled, can't be determined.

Those particular features all appear in their original forms. The 1940 opening notice has 182 as a double red PLS and 103 as a single yellow PLS.
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