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GWR GF lock terminology

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Bob Davies » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:36 pm

John Hinson wrote:
davidwoodcock wrote:Yes, John, it probably requires more staff in total but the point is that none of those staff have to be signalmen passed out for the relevant boxes. I assure you that it happened and sometimes for weeks on end, the boxes concerned were at locations where no trains were booked to pass (in the thinner timetables imposed prior to "Beeching" closures) but which had no provision for the introduction of long-section working.

Weeks on end? Holy smoke. I wonder how they got away with that without HQ finding out. A person qualified to act as Responsible Officer or Pilotman should be able to train and pass out a branch line box in a day. This sounds like an urban myth to me.

John

The implication of this is that the boxes in question were unable to switch out, otherwise they would have done so. Without a closing lever, the opposing signals could not be cleared so this in turn means passing a lot of signals at danger. Also, one of the FPL's would be needed to lock in the 'wrong' position so unless you were lucky and there happened to be a bothways lock, there would be unlocked (but undoubtedly clipped) facing points in the route. Both of these could of course be overcome with the cooperation of the local S&T lineman but whether he would be willing to put his name to it if something went wrong is another question.

However, this method of working might explain the YouTube video (which I cannot at the moment put my finger on) taken from a train in the very last days of the Carmarthen - Aberystwyth line. In it the train does indeed go past a lot of signals at danger (without stopping) at at least one passing point and I always wondered why this might have been.
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Bob Davies » Wed Feb 1, 2017 8:31 pm

I have opened a new thread "Signalling oddities - Carmarthen-Aberystwyth" to continue that part of the discussion.

Is it possible for the Mods to move some of the relevant posts over?

Duly done - see here - SJ
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby forestade » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:12 am

Yes The Dean Forest does have a Token with an Annett's Key at the other end. This is because of an in section Ground Frame which has an Annett's lock and we await a replacement Token lock..................................
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Ashley Hill » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:57 am

At Bishops Bridge on the SDR we had a token with an annets key on the end. It was used during the closing of the box where that token would be withdrawn and inserted into the annets machine. After inserting the short Totnes staff into another annets machine and throwing the King lever over the long section staff could be withdrawn from another Annette machine and the box switched out. The token and short staff are therefore locked in their machines. This special token was originally blue the same as the Buckfastlegh section and was on occasion used as an ordinary token. However,it was eventually painted white to effectively prevent this. It was abolished on the introduction of token working to Ashburton Jct.
Talking of white tokens,the Crediton-Lapford token used by the Lapford goods which released the two GFs there always puzzled me. Kept in the same instrument and the same configuration as the Eggesford section it made me wonder why an ordinary Eggesford token could not be issued for the trip as it would perform the same function. Equally issuing the Lapford token would prevent the train carrying on to Eggesford should there ever be a problem even though it would fit in the instrument there.
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:32 am

First time I've heard of token colours signifying anything more than the configuration, as a further reminder that the token is for the correct section.
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Ashley Hill » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:15 pm

One supposes that it is to identify a special token that is kept in the same instrument as the usual tokens for that section thus preventing it being given out by accident. For example if you were at Crediton going to Eggesford and the driver given the white Lapford token he would immediately question it. He would be expecting a green token. Not forgetting of course they should read it too.
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:52 pm

We had a discussion about Lapford a few years ago: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2962&hilit=Lapford

Unfortuately some of the photographs linked to in some of the posts no longer work.
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Chris Osment » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:05 pm

AIUI the reason for the special white 'Lapford token' was that it authorised the driver to proceed ONLY as far as Lapford. An 'ordinary' token authorised drivers to go all the way to Eggesford and into the Down loop, but apparently the NSTR regulations did not allow a goods train to do that if the further section to Barnstaple was occupied by a passenger train. Using a token of the same configuration as the others for the section meant that you could interlock with the NSTR for the Crediton - Eggesford section without the need for any special equipment.
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby Ashley Hill » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:38 pm

Have read the previous link attached about the Lapford token. Can confirm only one existed as have used it ..
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Re: GWR GF lock terminology

Unread postby forestade » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:30 pm

The token mentioned a few posts ago (DFR) is a solitary one which is orange in colour to differentiate to the section tokens which are red.
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