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NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 1, 2017 4:46 am
by John Hinson
I have had an enquiry from somebody that has recently moved into a property that includes a wooden NER signal box. They would like to restore it to the correct colours - but are not necessarily fussed about era.

Can anybody advise the appropriate colour scheme for:
  1. NER Southern Division
  2. L&NER
  3. BR(NER)

Many thanks,

John

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:52 am
by euryalus
Green and cream would probably be the "default" option for the LNER and BR eras. In earlier years there would have been little choice in terms of suitable colour schemes - Victorian domestic buildings were invariably painted green and cream or brown and cream.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:51 am
by John Hinson
Thanks - I thought that might be the case for the L&NER going by Pickering station on the NMYR which claims to be "LNER era". I was also looking at Grosmont station which is in pale blue and white (which, personally, I thought unattractive) and wondered if that represented the NER era. I agree, though, that the paints available in those days were generally fairly drab colours.

I will suggest green and cream to the owner but would still be interested in NER colour confirmation. I must dig my NER Signalling book out and read it again, although I don't remember it mentioning box colours.

Best regards,

John

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:19 pm
by euryalus
I would be interested to know if they had any written evidence to back-up the blue and white colour scheme. To my mind, this suggests the BR corporate livery that was introduced during the "blue diesel" era.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:32 pm
by John Hinson
Definitely not BR Blue era with that pale a blue, I would say - possibly BR(ScR) I suppose:
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-attrac ... %26edrf%3d

I'm sure they have a good reason, whatever colours it represents.

(Looking at that picture, I can see it is actually blue and cream, as the window frames are white).

John

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:51 pm
by Pete2320
John Hinson wrote:Definitely not BR Blue era with that pale a blue, I would say - possibly BR(ScR) I suppose:
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-attrac ... %26edrf%3d

I'm sure they have a good reason, whatever colours it represents.

(Looking at that picture, I can see it is actually blue and cream, as the window frames are white).

John

Definitely BR(NER), complete with "Tangerine" signs. I'm not sure about the blue bargeboards, gutters etc. My recollection is that they were the white colour but there could well have been local variations as with the exact shade of blue. I seem to recall that as"Delphinium" or "Chinese Blue". As to the white window frame opposed to the cream building, it should be remembered that "Brilliant White" only became generally available in the mid 60s. Until then all white was a pale cream.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:20 pm
by euryalus
I would be interested to know if there is any written evidence to suggest that blue was used as an external colour during the NER era.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:13 pm
by Pete2320
euryalus wrote:I would be interested to know if there is any written evidence to suggest that blue was used as an external colour during the NER era.

What do you mean by written evidence. There is plenty of photographic evidence. Just a question of finding it when you want to.

Pete

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:06 pm
by John Hinson
Are we confusing NER (i.e. pre-1923) and BR(NER) (post-1948) here?

There have been no suggestions yet of NER colours yet.

John

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:29 pm
by euryalus
What photographic evidence? Did they have colour film in the Victorian era?

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:02 pm
by davidwoodcock
euryalus wrote:What photographic evidence? Did they have colour film in the Victorian era?


It was certainly possible to take colour photographs (presumably on glass plates) by 1914 as I have seen some colour French Great War photographs which are original, not colourised. [Interestingly, but off topic, some depict both standard and narrow gauge railway activity.] The technique must have been rare and expensive though and it is most unlikely to have been wasted on a railway signal box.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:43 pm
by JRB
Not terrifically expensive, but very fiddly and laborious with 3 negatives for each picture and critical alignment - probably described on Google somewhere.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:29 am
by John Hinson
Stop, look and think, please.

A lot of the posts above are irrelevant to the question, owing to misunderstandings.

John

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:28 am
by euryalus
I have already said that the most likley colours for the LNER and BR periods would be brown and cream or green and cream. I don't think the NER would have used blue and cream - more likely brown and cream. The use of blue is highly suspect; some sources say that the shade of brown used by the NER was almost maroon. I think the LNER changed from brown and cream to green and cream during the 1930s.

Re: NER signal box colours

Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:23 pm
by John Hinson
Thanks. Nobody has said the pale blue/cream was used on North Eastern railway days other than my suggestion/question, for which I happily stand corrected.

However, now Pete has said those colours were used in BR days I do recall seeing those colours in a 1950s colour movie on U-tube.

Best regards,

John