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Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby Corrour » Mon Nov 6, 2017 7:39 pm

David/Stevie, Really useful to have some fresh pair(s) of eyes to check over drawing! Corrections made and sent to John for posting.

David I have a number of other Edinburgh diagrams, if your interested, given you knew the signalling in that area. Drop me a PE with your email and I'll send on.

kind regards,

Robert
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby dwwilson » Mon Nov 6, 2017 8:08 pm

The signal box diagram for Alloa West Junction shows the layout at the east end of Alloa Marshalling yard. This was a new build on a greenfield site opened in 1957. A new box at Alloa West Junction was built at the same time. The ground disc next to points 22 seems to be a fixed disc. Why would it be needed?
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby alancolq » Tue Nov 7, 2017 1:52 pm

Hi Stevie - yes, the left-most points should be No8!
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Nov 7, 2017 3:58 pm

dwwilson wrote:The signal box diagram for Alloa West Junction shows the layout at the east end of Alloa Marshalling yard. This was a new build on a greenfield site opened in 1957. A new box at Alloa West Junction was built at the same time. The ground disc next to points 22 seems to be a fixed disc. Why would it be needed?

I assume you are referring to the diagram at https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=601 .

Engines could make a move from the Down Departure lines using discs 40 and 42 to reverse at double disc 13 & 16. The fixed signal seems again to be the equivalent of a Limit of Shunt board.

John
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby Benhar Jnc » Tue Nov 7, 2017 7:54 pm

dwwilson wrote:The signal box diagram for Alloa West Junction shows the layout at the east end of Alloa Marshalling yard. This was a new build on a greenfield site opened in 1957. A new box at Alloa West Junction was built at the same time. The ground disc next to points 22 seems to be a fixed disc. Why would it be needed?


Well spotted, I'd previously looked at this diagram and failed to notice this example of a fixed ground signal. Still wondering is there was a protocol in the design office as to when a fixed ground signal or a L.o.S. sign should be used? Is there a human psychology aspect relating to driver behaviour when faced by either of the two variants?
...... another trip working to the Dardanelles
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby JRB » Tue Nov 7, 2017 10:47 pm

The general rule seems to be that a L.O.S. is used to stop shunt moves continuing away along running lines and a fixed disc for other situations. Signaling being signalling, there are bound to be exceptions.
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby John Hinson » Wed Nov 8, 2017 9:17 am

JRB wrote:The general rule seems to be that a L.O.S. is used to stop shunt moves continuing away along running lines and a fixed disc for other situations. Signaling being signalling, there are bound to be exceptions.

That is an interesting thought that hadn't crossed my mind.

With thanks to Robert and apologies for the time I took to do it, the updated 1971 plan is now in place on the site.

Best regards,

John
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Re: Fixed Ground Signal versus Limit of Shunt sign

Unread postby dwwilson » Wed Nov 8, 2017 10:38 am

Just to complete the picture southbound departurse from Alloa Yard would leave via Longcarse Junction. The diagram for this is in the Caldeonian list.
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