Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

Train reporting pre-TRUST

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby Main Line » Fri Jan 5, 2018 2:20 pm

In the days before TRUST, was there anyone at the BR regional (or before that the company) HQ keeping track of where each train was? These days of course even where reports are not generated automatically it's just a case of the signalman entering the times into TRUST but in days before this system, were there some signal boxes (or was this left to station staff) which had to phone through when every train passed so that HQ could keep track of them?
Last edited by Main Line on Fri Jan 5, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Main Line
Trainee
Trainee
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby Mike Stone » Fri Jan 5, 2018 3:08 pm

When I went to Reading in around 1978 reporting was by telephone to divisional control, but it could hardly be described as current.
When I went to Crewe HQ control, reporting was a mixture of telephone and automatic reporting from selected signals.
Mike Stone
Mike Stone
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:50 pm

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby John Hinson » Fri Jan 5, 2018 3:23 pm

It was done on the basis that trains were assumed on time unless reported otherwise so delays were reported immediately but routine record-keeping was done in batches.

One of our more enthusiastic controllers was popularly know as "Any More Please". Others were happy with a couple of calls per shift if everything was going smoothly,

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6949
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Fri Jan 5, 2018 4:30 pm

In the 1970s at the South end of the West Coast Mainline, there was teleprinter reporting of Up services to control. These were initiated at Rugby PSB, then repeated again at Bletchley PSB and finally Watford Junction PSB. I think it was only Class 1 services that were reported though......
Regards,
S&TEngineer
-----------------------------------------------------
Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
Henry IV, Part 1, Act 2, Scene 3
User avatar
S&TEngineer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Somewhere in the far South West

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby Romsey » Fri Jan 5, 2018 4:40 pm

In the mid 1980's London Bridge Panel ( Central Section) had a very basic system called ATRE - Automatic Train Reporting by Exception.
It recorded any trains over 2 or 3 minutes late at from what I remember at any controlled signals between Bricklayers Arms and Sydenham. Three Bridges had something similar between Windmill Bridge Jn and Brighton which recorded all trains, but it didn't seem to work particularly well. The best timekeeping reports were obtained from the train registers at the first box on each branchline!

Cheers, Neil
Romsey
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:43 pm
Location: Facing a PC

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby vic south » Fri Jan 5, 2018 8:36 pm

Hello Mainline,

I think you might find the British Transport Films production 'Train Time' interesting. I suspect it will answer your question (and probably generate several more!)

All the best,

Andrew
vic south
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:52 am

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby John Webb » Sat Jan 6, 2018 9:46 am

For information, the BTF film "Train Times" was published in 1950. It is not on any of the BFI published collections of BTF films, but is probably lurking somewhere on t'Internet!

Adrian Vaughan's three autobiographical books contain some references to BR(W) train reporting procedures.
John Webb
(Member, St Albans Signalbox Trust)
User avatar
John Webb
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1871
Joined: Tue Jul 8, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: St Albans, Herts

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby steve thompson » Sat Jan 6, 2018 5:22 pm

Its on youtube.

Here (link added by admin)
steve thompson
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Dec 6, 2015 9:46 am

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby Is Line Clear » Sat Jan 6, 2018 11:10 pm

steve thompson wrote:Its on youtube.

Here (link added by admin)

Nice film. Remember seeing BTF films (including 'Broccoli from Cornwall') shown by Barry Coward in the packed Bessemer Arms bar at Bluebell some years ago. Most Saturday nights then we enjoyed film shows/slide shows and other events. Food cooked to order by 'Chez' (Cheryl Sacre) and steak and chips were favourite. Good food, good entertainment and great company.
7-5-5
Is Line Clear
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 10:05 am
Location: West Sussex

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby StevieG » Sun Jan 7, 2018 6:38 pm

John Webb wrote:" For information, the BTF film "Train Times" was published in 1950. It is not on any of the BFI published collections of BTF films, but is probably lurking somewhere on t'Internet! .... "
"Train Time" is in my copy of the BFI's "The British Transport Films Collection", Volume 1 which is titled "On And off The Rails" : third film on DVD disc 1.
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \
StevieG
Double-manned box
Double-manned box
 
Posts: 3054
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:30 am
Location: ex-GNR territory in N. Herts.

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby John Webb » Sun Jan 7, 2018 7:02 pm

StevieG wrote:
John Webb wrote:" For information, the BTF film "Train Times" was published in 1950. It is not on any of the BFI published collections of BTF films, but is probably lurking somewhere on t'Internet! .... "
"Train Time" is in my copy of the BFI's "The British Transport Films Collection", Volume 1 which is titled "On And off The Rails" : third film on DVD disc 1.

Thanks - somehow had failed to note that one!
John Webb
(Member, St Albans Signalbox Trust)
User avatar
John Webb
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1871
Joined: Tue Jul 8, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: St Albans, Herts

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby Craig » Tue Jan 9, 2018 5:05 pm

When I was a bookmarker in Greenhill in 1992 we didn't have a trust machine, we used to do a time check with control every few hours where they would read out the headcodes and we'd reply "time" or whatever the delay was, the first box I worked with a trust machine was Larbert junction in 1995 but we only used it for information, we weren't trained in how to use it for train reporting, the bookmarkers in Stirling Middle at the time (probably the very last ones) were using them for train reporting by then iirc.

Craig
Craig
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:09 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby Craig » Tue Jan 9, 2018 5:08 pm

S&TEngineer wrote:In the 1970s at the South end of the West Coast Mainline, there was teleprinter reporting of Up services to control. These were initiated at Rugby PSB, then repeated again at Bletchley PSB and finally Watford Junction PSB. I think it was only Class 1 services that were reported though......


When I started in Motherwell SC in 1997 the ATR teleprinter machines had not long been decommissioned but were still lying on their table, they reported down WCML services en route to us at places like Tebay etc.
Craig
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:09 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby 27016 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:14 pm

When I worked in Exeter TOPS Office from 1988 to 1993, the platform chargemen at Taunton, Newton Abbot, Plymouth, Truro and Penzance were responsible for entering class 1 passenger train times into TOPS/POIS via their own TOPS terminals. Likewise the Movements Supervisors at Laira were also responsible for reporting class 5 LHCS & HST movements to TOPS/POIS.
An ATR machine was located on the operating floor in Exeter Panel, which from memory printed out passing times of trains for Cogload Junction, Tavistock Junction, Plymouth North Road and several locations in Cornwall, however this machine did not interface with TOPS and update schedules with real-time train running data.
User avatar
27016
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:41 pm
Location: Exeter

Re: Train reporting pre-TRUST

Unread postby jbmack » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:42 pm

When I started as a Box Lad in Kenyon Jct No1 in 1957 we reported all passing times to both Manchester and Liverpool control offices.
jbmack
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:02 am
Location: Leigh Lancs

Next

Return to Signalling - historical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests