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Rearward facing frames

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby Mackay » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:05 pm

davidwoodcock wrote:
I have wondered whether the gradual move to rear frames for mechanical boxes resulted from the increasing use of power frames of one sort or another in signal boxes. I couldn't think of a single "power" box which had a front frame (although doubtless there will now be a long list forthcoming), even the Edwardian LSWR pneumatic boxes (with slides) had rear frames.


Here's part of the long list ;-) All the NER EP cabins, and their one-and-only "Crewe" all-electric at Severus, York, had frames at the front. With the "bridge cabins" such as Green Lane, Forth Jct or Newcastle No.1 this was a bit academic as the frames were above the rails. The LNER 1930s cabins like Eryholme and Sessay Wood, which had a panel and a mechanical frame, had both frame and panel at the front. At Darlington South (Westinghouse Style L, May 1939) the frame was, at last, at the back.

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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:25 am

To throw a small spanner in the works, I've just remembered that the LMR type 15 signalboxes had their frames at the back but most of the same type of box used as raised shunting frames had the frame at the front but with the levers numbered right to left (Neilson Sidings and Sudbury Hump box were examples).
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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby kbarber » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:13 am

Fast Line Floyd wrote:To throw a small spanner in the works, I've just remembered that the LMR type 15 signalboxes had their frames at the back but most of the same type of box used as raised shunting frames had the frame at the front but with the levers numbered right to left (Neilson Sidings and Sudbury Hump box were examples).

But South West Sidings at Willesden was frame in the back, numbered L - R. I *think* I'm right in saying Acton Lane was likewise, though I only stuck my head in there once so wouldn't swear to it.
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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby John Hinson » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:26 am

Please look back to earlier posts. We are going round in circles here!

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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:58 am

kbarber wrote:
Fast Line Floyd wrote:To throw a small spanner in the works, I've just remembered that the LMR type 15 signalboxes had their frames at the back but most of the same type of box used as raised shunting frames had the frame at the front but with the levers numbered right to left (Neilson Sidings and Sudbury Hump box were examples).

But South West Sidings at Willesden was frame in the back, numbered L - R. I *think* I'm right in saying Acton Lane was likewise, though I only stuck my head in there once so wouldn't swear to it.

Keith, I did say 'raised' as opposed to ground level.
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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby Pete2320 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:18 pm

I think the visibility question is a bit of a red herring. Very few boxes had something you needed to see immediately out of the front, especially the smaller boxes. FLF mentions the LSWR type4 boxes. I believe these were mainly rear framed but the front usually only had windows towards the ends, the centre being brickwork! The position of the LMR elevated type 15 shunt frames also seems to suggest that front frames were handier where visibility was a must.
At the end of the day I get the feeling that rear frames simply became fashionable. Add those boxes where the frame moved at reframing, almost always front to back, due to the need to keep the old frame in service then a trend appears that is perhaps over exaggerated.
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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:34 pm

Pete2320 wrote:I think the visibility question is a bit of a red herring. Very few boxes had something you needed to see immediately out of the front, especially the smaller boxes. FLF mentions the LSWR type4 boxes. I believe these were mainly rear framed

Not in my experience, Feltham and Fawley are the only ones that I can say that I know to be rear frames where as I can name many more that were front frames. I agree with the visibility bit and in any case a quick walk to a suitably window in a small box is no hardship.
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Re: Rearward facing frames

Unread postby Chris Osment » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:14 pm

Without checking every L&SWR Type 4 box, then I could not form a definitive conclusion, but.....

I would suggest that probably the difference is simply down to dates. Early boxes such as Padstow, Bude, Holsworthy, Barnstaple Town, Woolston, Butts Jcn etc had front frames, later boxes such as Fawley, Holton Heath etc had rear frames.
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