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Fogsignalmen

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Fogsignalmen

Unread postby Main Line » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:03 pm

Under regulation 4e during times of fog or falling snow, unless there was a fog signalman on duty at the distant signal, a train could not be accepted from the box in rear unless the line was clear through, all points correctly set and TOOS received for the previous train. An additional fog signalman was required at the outermost home if the line was only clear to the second home, if not then the line had to be clear for 1/4 mile beyond the second home. Were these the only two signals which were usually fogged since the train would then be under control?

i also note that some time in the 1970s/80s (not sure when) fogsignalmen were removed from the rule book. I understand that by then most distant signals were colour light (and so no requirement for a fogsignalman) but there still would have been a fair few semaphore distants around and most of the outermost home signals would still have been semaphore so were there still local instructions for fogsigalmen or was there another reason why they were no longer required. AWS would be one reason immediately that comes to mind but I am not sure it was required to be installed at all outermost home signals.
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby colin1501 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:13 pm

There are still a fair few semaphore distants around today, but I suspect they all have AWS.

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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby Richard Pike » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:30 pm

The Bedford - Bletchley distants didn't get AWS before resignalling. I'm not sure what they did in fog.
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby Roger Bell » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:13 pm

Double block working?
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby RDNA » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:36 pm

When I started on the L. M. Region in 1970 some of the boxes that I worked still had printed forms on the wall listing the 'fogging posts' - but they invariable all said 'vacancy' - I asked one of the old gangers about this and he made reference to some industrial dispute that had resulted in the platelayers declining to be called out for 'fogging duties'.

Of course the main lines were getting MAS or at least colour light distants by then, the traffic volume was in decline and the old 'peasoupers' as fog combined with industrial pollution was known seemed much less frequent.

I only recall having to work 'Fog Block' for an occasional hour or so without significant disruption.

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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby RDNA » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:40 pm

Roger Bell wrote:Double block working?


'Fog Block' usually.

'Double Block' where sections were short.
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby Roger Bell » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:05 pm

RDNA wrote:
Roger Bell wrote:Double block working?


'Fog Block' usually.

'Double Block' where sections were short.


Just to clarify, I assume by "Fog Block" you mean having to have received TOS from the box in advance before accepting from the box in rear and "Double Block" where you must receive Line Clear from the box in advance before giving Line Clear to the box in rear?

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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby RDNA » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:56 pm

Roger Bell wrote:
RDNA wrote:
Roger Bell wrote:Double block working?


'Fog Block' usually.

'Double Block' where sections were short.


Just to clarify, I assume by "Fog Block" you mean having to have received TOS from the box in advance before accepting from the box in rear and "Double Block" where you must receive Line Clear from the box in advance before giving Line Clear to the box in rear?

Roger


That's how I remember it Roger.

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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby StevieG » Thu Mar 1, 2018 2:33 am

Main Line ;
The 1972 Rule Book contained a section on signalling during fog or falling snow (Section L) but the whole section was deleted a few years later.

AWS wasn't fitted at outermost Home or any semaphore stop signals unless they also had a lower Distant arm : Its primary function was to convey whether a signal capable of showing a Caution or Preliminary Caution indication/ aspect was doing so or was at Clear.
BZOH

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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby kbarber » Thu Mar 1, 2018 9:13 am

I recall when I was at signalling school (back end of 1978) the fog signalling regulations remained in the Rule Book and we had to learn all about fogsignalmen, but we were told absolutely that there were no fogsignalmen any more so we would always have to work Fog Block rather than with fogsignalmen.
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Thu Mar 1, 2018 12:26 pm

kbarber wrote:I recall when I was at signalling school (back end of 1978) the fog signalling regulations remained in the Rule Book and we had to learn all about fogsignalmen, but we were told absolutely that there were no fogsignalmen any more so we would always have to work Fog Block rather than with fogsignalmen.

I was told the same in 1974 on the same area.
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby JRB » Thu Mar 1, 2018 4:10 pm

AWS only at distants was a direct copy of GWR ATC practice.
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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Mar 5, 2018 2:20 pm

Just to be clear, the presence of AWS at distant signals had no effect on the fog-working regulations.

When I started, fog-signalmen were PW staff called out by Control. There used to be a card in each box indicating who should be called. I don't recall any formal discontinuation of the arrangements but Control seemed to become less inclined to call them over the years. I will take an educated guess and suggest the operating department had to pay heavily to use PW people for the purpose.

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Re: Fogsignalmen

Unread postby LAMPMAN » Tue Mar 6, 2018 7:04 am

When I went in the Box first you had a list of names of the Fog-men and on which signal they where booked on.

When the Fog-men got withdrawn a lot of the Footnotes in Boxes changed for acceptance of trains.

In some boxes the instruction was providing the line was clear up to the Section Signal and 2 Dets placed on the line using Det placer if required you could accept full line clear.

If there was a colour light Distant the acceptance was providing the line was clear for half mile beyond the Home Signal you could accept full line clear.
Windy up this Distant

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