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GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your own

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GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your own

Unread postby madscientist » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:28 pm

I know there have been some disscussion on leads here

How does one go about decribing leads on a fictitious GWR BR ( WR ) layout I’m building

Simple leads like starting are ok , i,m assuming leads are in the traffolyte era rather then brass

Discs used “at “ or “ for “ differences ?

What did the term “ or” mean on a lead description , was this for the lever reversed

What was the purpose of the dividing line on the lead

How were double and single slips indicated on the lead

Thanks for any help

Dave
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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby Chris Osment » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:41 pm

>>>How does one go about decribing leads on a fictitious GWR BR ( WR ) layout I’m building...

I would suggest that the easiest way for anyone to answer that Q is for you to supply a copy of your proposed signalling diagram please :-)
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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby StevieG » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:41 pm

I would agree with Chris Osment 's general suggestion madscientist.

But in direct reply to your specific queries ;-

1) "for" or "at" question,
in my experience,
"DISC (or DISCS if more than one worked from the one lever).FOR n(n(n))" means the disc lever can only be pulled to clear the disc (or one of the discs) when the numbered points mentioned have been pulled to Reverse ;
"DISC(s) AT n (n (n))" means that that disc lever can be pulled with the numbered points mentioned in either position, as the disc(or one of) can be cleared in either case.

2) your query on "OR" means that the lever concerned can be released by two or more single or multiple combinations of other levers pulled first; e.g
"16
DISC FOR 15
15
OR
15
13
12
(underlinings omitted)
BZOH

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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby Danny252 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:46 pm

Regarding discs for/at, my experience is that "FOR" refers to the points reverse (as per the previous comment), but "AT" referred to the points specifically normal - I've usually come across such wording in pairs of disks reading each way over points.

However, I suspect the real case is halfway between our answers, with "AT" adopted both for disks reading over the normal position only, and for disks reading over both positions, while "FOR" denoted the reverse position only.
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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby StevieG » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 pm

Danny252 wrote:Regarding discs for/at, my experience is that "FOR" refers to the points reverse (as per the previous comment), but "AT" referred to the points specifically normal - I've usually come across such wording in pairs of disks reading each way over points.

However, I suspect the real case is halfway between our answers, with "AT" adopted both for disks reading over the normal position only, and for disks reading over both positions, while "FOR" denoted the reverse position only.

A good point Danny252; a variant that I'm not sure I ever encountered and hadn't thought of.
Last edited by StevieG on Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby Chris Rideout » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:18 pm

Danny252 wrote:Regarding discs for/at, my experience is that "FOR" refers to the points reverse (as per the previous comment), but "AT" referred to the points specifically normal - I've usually come across such wording in pairs of disks reading each way over points.

However, I suspect the real case is halfway between our answers, with "AT" adopted both for disks reading over the normal position only, and for disks reading over both positions, while "FOR" denoted the reverse position only.


You have that spot on. To add to the GWR/WR terminology, FPLs are always shown as "FOR" the points but never "AT" the points. I think most pre-grouping companies made a reference to the lever position as shown below:

FPL

NO. 8

UNLOCKED
LOCKED

The WR signal information diagrams (issued with alterations notices and not actual box diagrams) would state "FPLs stand unbolted" (i.e. pull to lock) and "2 holes" would mean that the points could be locked normal and reverse.
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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby Chris Osment » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:12 pm

>>>>I think most pre-grouping companies made a reference to the lever position....

Maybe, but from examples that I have seen the L&SWR did not and AFAIK neither did the SR.
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Re: GWR/ BR(WR) leads , terminology and constructing your ow

Unread postby Chris Rideout » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:40 am

Chris Osment wrote:>>>>I think most pre-grouping companies made a reference to the lever position....

Maybe, but from examples that I have seen the L&SWR did not and AFAIK neither did the SR.

On the Isle of Wight (Merstone and Newport South were 2 examples) the words "unlocked - locked" or vice versa were painted on the FPL lever in the days before the box diagrams had the wording "FPLs stand normally out" (or "in" as the case may be). Lever leads at Merstone for levers 1 to 7 IIRC were photographed by JRH Griffiths and can be found in the books "Once Upon a Line". It was either volume 3 or 4.

The IOW lines always seemed to differ slightly from mainland practice. In fact, they still do.
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