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Small arm with subsidiary arm below

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Small arm with subsidiary arm below

Unread postby SDL » Tue Jan 6, 2009 6:41 pm

Photos of Cowlairs before the 1956 resignalling show a miniature arm semaphore signal with a subsidiary style arm below it. That's a bit unusual isn't it? I can't tell what class of subsidiary signal it is (C, S or W). Comments, anyone?
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Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Jan 6, 2009 8:35 pm

I'm looking at a selection of diagrams of the various boxes at Cowlairs over the years but see no sign of this signal. Do you know exactly where it was? I have few plans post-1936 so it may post-date them.

I note that Cowlairs Central has a warning arm below the Up Home; it is remotely possible (101% guesswork) that the scissors arm, in the Down Siding was renewed in the form you describe to give that same warning function.

Such a signal is most definitely unusual - as a miniature arm does not indicate that the line ahead is clear there seems no sound reason to provide a sub arm below.

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Unread postby SDL » Tue Jan 6, 2009 10:12 pm

signalman wrote:I'm looking at a selection of diagrams of the various boxes at Cowlairs over the years but see no sign of this signal. Do you know exactly where it was? I have few plans post-1936 so it may post-date them.

I note that Cowlairs Central has a warning arm below the Up Home

The photo was taken from Cowlairs station platform looking north. The signal stands immediately in front of Cowlairs Central box. It controls the exit from the Up Siding. What I imagine was the Up Home is also visible, nearer the camera. It was a bracket post carrying full size stop and distant arms with a sub arm below.
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Re:

Unread postby steamby51 » Tue Jan 6, 2009 11:52 pm

Maybe space constraints demanded the home arm be made miniature, and then there was a subdiary needed for some other part of the track-plan?
all im saying is, if there is no semaphore signalling in heaven, i will consider myself ripped off and come back to work on the signals down here, so too bad.

Anybody ever seen a co-acting subsidiary or Calling on arm?
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Unread postby John Hinson » Wed Jan 7, 2009 4:35 am

SDL wrote:The photo was taken from Cowlairs station platform looking north. The signal stands immediately in front of Cowlairs Central box. It controls the exit from the Up Siding. What I imagine was the Up Home is also visible, nearer the camera. It was a bracket post carrying full size stop and distant arms with a sub arm below.

Thanks - I guessed right location and right reason, just the wrong side of the running lines. Do I get a sweetie for trying?

I've uploaded a diagram of the box to clarify the layout geography, although it pre-dates the provision of the arm below the outlet signal (18). I've also provided one for Cowlairs West Junction which demonstrates the need for Regulation 5. You will find them at http://signalbox.org/diagrams.php listed in the North British section.

The actual reason for provision of this signal remains a mystery - my guess is that it was added as a "knee-jerk" reaction to an incident at West Junction, without any consideration to the real meaning of 18 signal to a driver.

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Unread postby SDL » Wed Jan 7, 2009 9:20 pm

signalman wrote:I've uploaded a diagram of the box to clarify the layout geography, although it pre-dates the provision of the arm below the outlet signal (18 ). I've also provided one for Cowlairs West Junction which demonstrates the need for Regulation 5. You will find them at http://signalbox.org/diagrams.php listed in the North British section.

Thanks, that's very useful. The photo shows that signal 18 has acquired a disc signal offset to the left of the post as well as the new subsidiary arm. That must be pretty uncommon too, to have a disc on the same signal as a small (non-subsidiary) semaphore arm.

I guessed right location and right reason, just the wrong side of the running lines. Do I get a sweetie for trying?

Signal 13 isn't visible in the photo but it's possible that it had gained a sub arm by this time too. Do help yourself to a sweetie, but remember to brush with Signal toothpaste. :D
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