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Dowlow branch

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Dowlow branch

Unread postby Dafydd » Thu May 6, 2010 9:46 am

I'm just writing up some notes and I'm a bit puzzled about the token machines on this branch.

I have conflicting notes, one says there is only one other machine on the branch now (other than at Buxton), and that is at the junction of Briggg's sidings and the Dowlow bit. However, I have dim recollection of being told there are actually two machines on the branch, one at the ground frame for Briggs, and the other at the branch end at Dowlow.

My instinct says there's probably just the one. Can Kestrel eyes or anyone else enlighten me?

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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby kestreleyes » Fri May 7, 2010 4:24 pm

theres only one left boss at the quarry end of the line, the intermediate ground frames are shown on the diagram as being out of use, technically;

higher buxton went years ago under some housing estate
hindlow 1 still exists,and is tested once every now and then ,the gf still exists but is out of use and clipped,the MOM used to check it out at least once a month or so.
hindlow 2 went some years back when the line into the works went under the quarry companies carpark,the old gf used to stand there in the dry stone wall for sometime afterwards,i think it was a midland style frame if memory serves me right.

briggs sidings still there and in use as is the machine.

the method is to use the press of a seperate button by the signallers knee to send a pulse out lineside on a seperate telecomms pair to operate the machines return pulse from the far end, a bit of an overkill really as it could use the A/B relay system and capacitor to do the same job with the same lines.
yep i floated the van in sandbach lake once
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Dafydd » Sat May 8, 2010 8:57 am

Many thanks. I've just posted a few pics from Buxton and Great Rocks to the flickr site.

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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Simon Foster » Sat May 8, 2010 8:39 pm

kestreleyes wrote:theres only one left boss at the quarry end of the line, the intermediate ground frames are shown on the diagram as being out of use, technically;

higher buxton went years ago under some housing estate
hindlow 1 still exists,and is tested once every now and then ,the gf still exists but is out of use and clipped,the MOM used to check it out at least once a month or so.
hindlow 2 went some years back when the line into the works went under the quarry companies carpark,the old gf used to stand there in the dry stone wall for sometime afterwards,i think it was a midland style frame if memory serves me right.

briggs sidings still there and in use as is the machine.

the method is to use the press of a seperate button by the signallers knee to send a pulse out lineside on a seperate telecomms pair to operate the machines return pulse from the far end, a bit of an overkill really as it could use the A/B relay system and capacitor to do the same job with the same lines.


If I remember correctly, there's something odd about this setup, it looks as though it almost works as per the GW system, there's some extra circuitry at Briggs which looks as though it might store the incoming voltage and then send back a pulse, but as you say there is a separate plunger & lines instead. The other possibility is that the circuitry is there to make the indicators work. I can't remember which type are fitted on these, are they three-position Coming From/Going To/Normal or just Token In/Token Out?

There weren't any intermediate instruments at any of the Hindlow GFs, I cannot remember if there was one at Higher Buxton. There was only ever one instrument at Briggs.

When Hindlow SB was abolished in 1982, two new frames were provided in lieu, one at the Buxton end of the long siding and the other between the box and station sidings. Spencer's Sidings frame (on the Briggs side of the Longor road underbridge), originally a SK446 I think, was renewed as well, as was Briggs. All these frames were two-lever SK80s, released by the token. Spencer's Sidings frame had originally been released from Hindlow box, mechanically, possibly using a midway release.

Prior to the Hindlow abolition, working between there and Briggs was by metal Staff & Ticket, using an ingenious arrangement of LNWR Annett's locks fitted with a sprung pawl to trap the Ticket until the Staff arrived.
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby kestreleyes » Mon May 10, 2010 5:29 am

indeed simon, youre right, there is an oddball circuit at the briggs end!

there is a timer in the circuit to deliver the ten second return pulse back to buxton, yet this is operated from a seperate pair of lines than the token cct over the knee push button from buxton.

common sense would have said use the same token lines and use the incoming outgoing A/B relays and some capacitor/timer at the end to give the ten seconds.

wonder if the circuit was due to problems with the quality of the token line,as it always seems to have been in telecomms cables rather than anything s and t, mind you as simon will agree we are odd up there like that!!!! :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink:
yep i floated the van in sandbach lake once
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Pete2320 » Tue May 11, 2010 8:31 pm

Simon Foster wrote
Spencer's Sidings frame had originally been released from Hindlow box, mechanically, possibly using a midway release.

It was indeed. The actual midway release was remarkably crude, effectively two elongated links that went slack when the release was given either way. A piece of chain would have done the same job! Spencers also had slots on Hindlows' home and distant "towards Buxton" but nothing the other way. I wonder if the release was only provided when the line was singled- I believe it was once double!
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Simon Foster » Tue May 11, 2010 9:25 pm

Pete2320 wrote:Simon Foster wrote
Spencer's Sidings frame had originally been released from Hindlow box, mechanically, possibly using a midway release.

It was indeed. The actual midway release was remarkably crude, effectively two elongated links that went slack when the release was given either way. A piece of chain would have done the same job! Spencers also had slots on Hindlows' home and distant "towards Buxton" but nothing the other way. I wonder if the release was only provided when the line was singled- I believe it was once double!
Pete


It was indeed double, until 1968 I think. The original Up line remained as a siding up to the tunnel mouth until the box closed. It was regularly used for storing 'Covhop' wagons. I might have a copy of the plan somewhere. I do have the locking fitter's folder for the place lying around.

In a former life I was involved with the same preservation group Mr Kestreleyes looks after now, and we obtained Hindlow box for the princely sum of £5. Great fun was had demolishing it, and we also managed to get hold of some of the lineside stuff as well.

Spencer's GF also slotted a Yellow disc reading out of the sidings. I remember the old GF parts lying in the grass, but had heard it was being saved so we couldn't have it. Even with the slots, I would still expect a release to be provided, but I suppose stranger things have been done in days of yore.

One thing I remember is that everything near the Spencer's works had been coated with lime dust, which had grown to a thick layer where it was undisturbed. All the redundant signal wires from the double line days had been left in, and by then had become encased in a cement overcoat about an inch in diameter in places, where the dust had stuck to them in wet weather. Signal posts had a coating on one side where the wind had blown the dust onto them for decades, and there are photo's around which look like winter scenes, only it isn't snow stuck to the signal arms.
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby kestreleyes » Wed May 12, 2010 5:44 am

now that rings true about the quarry dust that Simon mentions, at Peak Forrest theres been a slight problem with the quarry water getting onto the track..shall we say!!! :lol:

the lime in the water runs all over the show and until a few years ago used to set hard over all the equipment especially when it went cold, i remember one winter doing the usual trick with mr Kain of setting some parraffin on fire to free stuff off,to have to then get a bar out the van to try to break up the near concrete solution that had fouled up the base of the dollys!, still whoever gets the old Peak Forrest box for preservation wont have any rot in the posts as theres that much stuff seeped into the wood itl ne`r rot!

if you go down near the Midland tunnel at Great Rocks, the old pulley wires are still there encased in a goodly coat of dust from Tunstead quarry,that must have been there since Tunstead box closed.

ps does anyone have any internal pics of that box,only ever seen the outside in "Through Limestone Hills"

getting back onto Dowlow, theres still a good post up there standing sentinel (minus its arm) much as that lovely gantry in Dewsnap too!!
yep i floated the van in sandbach lake once
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Dafydd » Wed May 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Simon Foster wrote:
kestreleyes wrote:. I can't remember which type are fitted on these, are they three-position Coming From/Going To/Normal or just Token In/Token Out?

.


Thanks for that.

The machine at the Buxton end is a 3 position one, Train Going To/Train Coming From, Line Normal.

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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Simon Foster » Wed May 12, 2010 10:21 pm

Dafydd wrote:
Simon Foster wrote:
kestreleyes wrote:. I can't remember which type are fitted on these, are they three-position Coming From/Going To/Normal or just Token In/Token Out?

.


Thanks for that.

The machine at the Buxton end is a 3 position one, Train Going To/Train Coming From, Line Normal.

Dafydd

In which case it's the Gt Rocks section that has the Token In/Out indicators, probably because the three-position ones would give misleading indications when a release was given to the intermediate instrument at Topley Pike GF (I think both ends would show TCF?). This might also indicate (PI) that the Hindlow section did not have an intermediate at Higher Buxton, otherwise it would surely have had two-position indicators as well.
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby Simon Foster » Wed May 12, 2010 10:28 pm

kestreleyes wrote:now that rings true about the quarry dust that Simon mentions, at Peak Forrest theres been a slight problem with the quarry water getting onto the track..shall we say!!! :lol:

the lime in the water runs all over the show and until a few years ago used to set hard over all the equipment especially when it went cold, i remember one winter doing the usual trick with mr Kain of setting some parraffin on fire to free stuff off,to have to then get a bar out the van to try to break up the near concrete solution that had fouled up the base of the dollys!, still whoever gets the old Peak Forrest box for preservation wont have any rot in the posts as theres that much stuff seeped into the wood itl ne`r rot!

So where are you going to put that one then, Bakewell?

kestreleyes wrote:getting back onto Dowlow, theres still a good post up there standing sentinel (minus its arm) much as that lovely gantry in Dewsnap too!!

There were several there 20-odd years ago, including one with a running line to loop bracket. Then there was an LMS cast/corrugated arm which a local farmer had incorporated into his dry stone wall. IIRC that got rescued.
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby kestreleyes » Wed May 12, 2010 10:44 pm

bakewell!! nah too many boxes on such a short line, best go for hydropneumatic points like the P&DSR.

Would make a nice view overlooking Millers Dale though!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:
yep i floated the van in sandbach lake once
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Thu May 13, 2010 11:59 am

kestreleyes wrote:the method is to use the press of a seperate button by the signallers knee to send a pulse out lineside on a seperate telecomms pair to operate the machines return pulse from the far end, a bit of an overkill really as it could use the A/B relay system and capacitor to do the same job with the same lines.


Any chance of seeing a circuit diagram for this?
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby kestreleyes » Thu May 13, 2010 6:56 pm

indeed,i have a COPY HERE,will scan it in tommorow and PM it to you :shock:
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Re: Dowlow branch

Unread postby kestreleyes » Thu May 13, 2010 7:06 pm

indeed,the machine at great rocks is the two position one, the hindlow one being the 3 position, i cant actually remember there being a machine at higher buxton,but the old parcels dmus used to lock themselves in there all day long so there must have been something arranged so to speak for getting key into nearest machine
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