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East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated works

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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby E D Mann » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:44 pm

S&TEngineer wrote:What did you expect after the xmas 2014 commissioning overrun fiasco? No company in its right mind is going to have its reputation dragged through the mire following that.


Er, I don't recall making any mention of what I 'expected'. But seeing as we're now on the subject, no-one working in, or visiting the area recently would be surprised at this outcome.

Definitely the right decision to postpone given the various so-called contingency alternatives mooted, but it's hardly as if this choice eliminates reputational damage to Network Rail.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:05 pm

JG Morgan wrote:

Thanks for the information, Peter.
I noticed the new signal on the up main just out of Fort Pitt tunnel this week. It has a Position 1 indicator, as well as Position 4 & 5. Given its location, and the new gantry you describe with four up direction signals, my interpretation is that the new signal will give access to all four platforms at the OLD Rochester station. The new gantry will then control movements from old towards new station.
Some sections of the up loop between the old and new stations have been relaid recently.

Putting all this together, does this mean that the loops through the old station are to be retained after closure of the old station?

You will know, Peter (but other readers may not) that the extension of the up main platform at Rainham, is not (as has been reported elsewhere) to take 12 coach trains. The platforms at Rainham have been 12 coach length since electrification in 1959. The extension is to accommodate a 12 coach down train (on the up main platform) clear of the new down direction signal.
I hadn't seen the theatre-type indicator on the new signal on the down main approaching Rainham, but would agree with your interpretation that the up main becomes reversible through Rainham station. Can you explain why a theatre-type indicator is used, rather than Position 4 & 5 junction indicators?
And will the new signalling allow a train from the coast to terminate at Rainham (up platform) and return?


I have been out of the rail industry since 2010 having been made redundant, but I used to be a relief signalman covering boxes in the Medway area in the late 1980s. Unfortunately I'm not able to answer your questions accurately but can only speculate which would not be useful. Perhaps somebody else is able to comment on the actual track and signal layout?
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:35 pm

Further facts about East Kent Resignalling Phase 2 project

New crossovers will be or already laid at Sole Street, Strood, Rochester, Rainham, Cuxton, Aylesford, Maidstone West.


Level crossings to be converted:-

Gillingham crossing converted to CCTV operation
Rainham crossing converted to CCTV operation
Cuxton crossing converted to full automatic barriers with obstacle detection
Snodland crossing remaining as a CCTV crossing but control transferred from Aylesford to East Kent Signalling Centre
Aylesford crossing to CCTV operation
Aylesford Village crossing remaining as a CCTV crossing but control transferred from Aylesford to East Kent Signalling Centre
East Farleigh crossing converted to CCTV operation
Teston crossing remaining as a CCTV crossing but control transferred from Wateringbury to East Kent Signalling Centre
Wateringbury crossing converted to full automatic barriers with obstacle detection
Yalding crossing remains as an ABCL
Betring crossing converted from AHB to full automatic barriers with obstacle detection

Rochester, Gillingham and East Farleigh signal boxes will be demolished. Rainham will be part-demolished. Sittingbourne, Cuxton, Snodland, Aylesford, Maidstone West and Wateringbury signal boxes will be secured.

Sherrness branch from Kemsley to Sheerness will be re-controlled without alteration of the existing signalling from Sittingbourne to the East Kent Signalling Centre.
Higham to Cuxton / Rochester Bridge Junction will be recontrolled (and part resignalled) from Ashford IECC to the East Kent Signalling Centre.
Cuxton to Aylesford and East Farleigh to Beltring will be re-controlled and re-locked from existing signal boxes to the East Kent Signalling Centre. I understand that the mode of signalling will be Track Circuit Block using axle counter detection. Currently the line from Aylesford to Wateringbury is worked under Absolute Block Regulations.
Resignalling of lines Longfield to Sittingbourne also Aylesford to East Farleigh, Western Junction / Eastern Junction to Kemsley.

Hope this is useful
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby John Hinson » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:29 pm

E D Mann wrote:Definitely the right decision to postpone given the various so-called contingency alternatives mooted, but it's hardly as if this choice eliminates reputational damage to Network Rail.

A touch of damned if they do, damned if they don't. Unfortunately there is no right answer.

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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby E D Mann » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:52 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:New crossovers will be or already laid at Sole Street, Strood, Rochester, Rainham, Cuxton, Aylesford, Maidstone West.


Rochester - yes (laid, but not in use). Sole Street - no. Rainham - due to be done last weekend, but postponed. Medway Valley - AFAIK, none yet.

No changes to level crossings yet. One of the reasons the Medway Valley has slipped is the awkwardness of some of the crossings, eg East Farleigh.

Of course, the hitlisted ‘boxes have now received a stay of execution.


JG Morgan wrote:I noticed the new signal on the up main just out of Fort Pitt tunnel this week. It has a Position 1 indicator, as well as Position 4 & 5. Given its location, and the new gantry you describe with four up direction signals, my interpretation is that the new signal will give access to all four platforms at the OLD Rochester station.


New signal is EK4068. Position 1 = Up Rochester Loop; Position 4 = Down Chatham; Position 5 = Down Rochester Loop; Miniature Indicator Only = Down Rochester Loop.

Positions 4, 5 and the Miniature Indicator were to remain out of use during the interim stage works (ie until the new station is in use).


JG Morgan wrote:Putting all this together, does this mean that the loops through the old station are to be retained after closure of the old station?


Yes. The Up Platform Loop will remain largely unchanged; the Down Platform Loop will become the country end of the new Down Rochester Loop.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby scarpa » Thu Apr 2, 2015 6:34 pm

Its sad that one job that went pear shape puts the whole of the industry into doubting its capability to deliver.Christmas is a bad time for staff to be working as half will try to juggle getting home and the lure of a bonus payment.A large number are also suffering from fatigue and a rest at christmas would do them good. Large intricate resignalling jobs should be banned at christmas.The signalling contracting companies should only pay a bonus to staff if job completed on time.They should also get real with a small minority of staff who turn up wit no tools and then try and steal the contractors tools.The problem at christmas was caused by Network rail not making full use of the signalling available at Finsbury Park .Putting a diversion plan trains to Liverpool Street via Dalston or Cambridge and bus services to a another station north of Finsbury Park.Occurrences like this, and if there are any experienced managers left in Networkrail should have the right to overrule the TOCs and tell them whats to be done!
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby StockControl » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:05 pm

Guys some one out there must know what is the latest on this scheme, I have tried twice to ask question to EKR2 website but they have not replied, too ashamed, so please does any one have any further knowledge. Thanks
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:58 am

scarpa wrote:Its sad that one job that went pear shape puts the whole of the industry into doubting its capability to deliver.Christmas is a bad time for staff to be working as half will try to juggle getting home and the lure of a bonus payment.A large number are also suffering from fatigue and a rest at christmas would do them good. Large intricate resignalling jobs should be banned at christmas.The signalling contracting companies should only pay a bonus to staff if job completed on time.They should also get real with a small minority of staff who turn up wit no tools and then try and steal the contractors tools.The problem at christmas was caused by Network rail not making full use of the signalling available at Finsbury Park .Putting a diversion plan trains to Liverpool Street via Dalston or Cambridge and bus services to a another station north of Finsbury Park.Occurrences like this, and if there are any experienced managers left in Networkrail should have the right to overrule the TOCs and tell them whats to be done!

Train diversion onto another TOC's route rarely happens these days due to lack of paths, train crew route knowledge and stock/route compatibility. In this case diversion over a single line from Finsbury Park to Canonbury and again over the Graham Road Curve would preclude and significant numbers of trains running over this route even if there as sufficient crews with route knowledge and there being enough line capacity and available platforms at Liverpool Street. But I am sure that cl91 hauled mk4 coaches are not route passed via this route, the OLE between Liverpool Street and Hackney Downs may not have the capacity to supply the cl91's up the incline on Graham Road Curve so the whole idea is a non starter.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby StevieG » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:50 am

The pre-Graham Road Curve route between Navarino Road Jn. and Bethnal Green via Lea and Channelsea Jns., Carpenters Road Curve, and Bow Jn. still exists FLF, but I'd think all the other factors that you mention would still be sufficient to prevent such diversions.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby rower40 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:56 am

StevieG wrote:The pre-Graham Road Curve route between Navarino Road Jn. and Bethnal Green via Lea and Channelsea Jns., Carpenters Road Curve, and Bow Jn. still exists FLF, but I'd think all the other factors that you mention would still be sufficient to prevent such diversions.

Straying a bit off topic, but I remember being on a Cambridge-Liverpool Street (non-stopper) train that went via Royston then that way when the direct route via Bishops Stortford was blocked (either because of Electrification, or construction of Stansted chords - can't remember which).
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:50 pm

rower40 wrote:
StevieG wrote:The pre-Graham Road Curve route between Navarino Road Jn. and Bethnal Green via Lea and Channelsea Jns., Carpenters Road Curve, and Bow Jn. still exists FLF, but I'd think all the other factors that you mention would still be sufficient to prevent such diversions.

Straying a bit off topic, but I remember being on a Cambridge-Liverpool Street (non-stopper) train that went via Royston then that way when the direct route via Bishops Stortford was blocked (either because of Electrification, or construction of Stansted chords - can't remember which).

Ah back in BR days many things were possible....
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:14 pm

StockControl wrote:Guys some one out there must know what is the latest on this scheme, I have tried twice to ask question to EKR2 website but they have not replied, too ashamed, so please does any one have any further knowledge. Thanks



My understanding is that the current resignalling has been put back to Easter 2016, with the Medway Valley part of the scheme being 'permanently paused'.

Nevertheless the plan is to also to press ahead with the opening of the new station at Rochester together with the closure of the old station, in December 2015 as originally scheduled, using the existing signalling and minus the country end of the new Down platforms.

Presumably that means in practice that the Down Loop platform won't be in use, because the existing signal box is in the way, so this will have a major impact on terminating peak hour services at Rochester, which presumably will have to terminate at Strood, or alternatively run through to Maidstone West or Gillingham.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby John Hinson » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:16 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:Presumably that means in practice that the Down Loop platform won't be in use, because the existing signal box is in the way, so this will have a major impact on terminating peak hour services at Rochester, which presumably will have to terminate at Strood, or alternatively run through to Maidstone West or Gillingham.

I would have thought they could detrain at the new station, and then proceed forward to the loop in the old station to reverse?

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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:14 pm

John Hinson wrote:
Peter Gibbons wrote:Presumably that means in practice that the Down Loop platform won't be in use, because the existing signal box is in the way, so this will have a major impact on terminating peak hour services at Rochester, which presumably will have to terminate at Strood, or alternatively run through to Maidstone West or Gillingham.

I would have thought they could detrain at the new station, and then proceed forward to the loop in the old station to reverse?

John


I understand that the timetable as originally planned from December 2015 will require some major alterations due to the signalling not being completed due to intensive use of the line in peak hours. Stopping and starting a train then driving it forward just 500 yards to a point where it can reverse is going to reduce the line's capacity somewhat.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby E D Mann » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:
StockControl wrote:Guys some one out there must know what is the latest on this scheme, I have tried twice to ask question to EKR2 website but they have not replied, too ashamed, so please does any one have any further knowledge. Thanks



My understanding is that the current resignalling has been put back to Easter 2016, with the Medway Valley part of the scheme being 'permanently paused'.

Nevertheless the plan is to also to press ahead with the opening of the new station at Rochester together with the closure of the old station, in December 2015 as originally scheduled, using the existing signalling and minus the country end of the new Down platforms.

Presumably that means in practice that the Down Loop platform won't be in use, because the existing signal box is in the way, so this will have a major impact on terminating peak hour services at Rochester, which presumably will have to terminate at Strood, or alternatively run through to Maidstone West or Gillingham.


You saw my post, then ;-)

The Medway Valley hasn't officially been 'paused' yet - the latest official correspondence laughably quotes Easter 2016 (along with the mainline and the Sheerness branch) - but in reality there is a shortfall of tens of millions and the mood music suggests it's just a matter of time. Currently, the most likely outcome seems to be that that the Valley will remain signalled as present, with Wateringbury and East Farleigh converted to MCBs (which, if nothing else, will at least avoid any more car > signaller interfaces at the latter).
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