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East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated works

Current and future British signalling (UK except Northern Ireland)

Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby StockControl » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:54 pm

Peter look 2 posts above e D Mann has posted a link
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby E D Mann » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:05 pm

Couple of errors: the crossover adjacent to Rochester SB was removed in December (when the new station opened) and for some reason the Strood map omits the crossover between the Down and Up Maidstone, just country side of Strood (which will be controlled by the Rochester workstation).
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:03 pm

Some questions to ask:-

1. There is a reference on the diagrams that states:- NK447: 'This signal and subsequent signals towards Strood are now under the control of East Kent Signalling Centre at Gillingham' Will the signal prefixes and numbering remain the same as they are now? Even when the Charing Cross area transferred from London Bridge ASC to Three Bridges ROC, the signal prefix changed from 'L' to 'TL'. The came thing occurred at Blackfriars, when the signal prefixes changed from 'VS' to 'TVS' when control was transferred from Victoria ASC (Southeastern) to Three Bridges ROC and those at St Pancras International Platforms 1 to 4 changed from 'WH' to 'TWH' when that area transferred from West Hampstead ASC to Three Bridges ROC.

2. There used to be movable angles at Rochester Bridge Junction, have these now become fixed angles? The normal position of the trailing points at the junction seems rather unusual. Same applies are Western Junction, Eastern Junction and Middle Junction, all at Sittingbourne

3. The layout a Gillingham Depot to Carriage Road No.1 and No.2 seems substantially simplified on the diagram to what was out on the ground. Is that going to be changed as part of the resignalling works too?

4. For the Sheerness line, will the signalling shown on the diagram with an 'EV' prefix be altered to show the 'EK' prefix?
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby E D Mann » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:53 pm

1. Yes, the NK-prefix signals will remain NK (ditto EV).

2. Movable angles long since disappeared, alas.

3. Not aware of any recent changes on the ground. The method of working will alter slightly with moves to the reception roads requiring a release as well as verbal acceptance. Departing movements can be signalled from EK4118/4120 once the depot staff have entered the relevant Train ID and the driver has 'SG-ed'.

The Rochester and Sittingbourne workstations fringe just east of Chatham. ARS available on most of Sittingbourne (except beyond Kemsley).
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby nsefan » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:40 am

Were the gates at East Farleigh replaced with rising barriers? I assume that Wateringbury and Cuxton have been left as-is since these do not protect such busy roads compared to East Farleigh?
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:58 pm

nsefan wrote:Were the gates at East Farleigh replaced with rising barriers? I assume that Wateringbury and Cuxton have been left as-is since these do not protect such busy roads compared to East Farleigh?



As far as I'm aware nothing has changed over last weekend on the Medway Valley line, except that Cuxton box has had yet another new signalling centre (its 3rd, not mention numerous mechanical boxes before it), to work with to the north, which it seems to have successfully outlasted. it outlasted Dartford which had a spare area of its panel to take over the Medway Valley Line. Then came the North Kent Workstation at Ashford (Kent), now it is working to the Gillingham new signalling centre.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby blue » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:20 pm

Peter, what is the dates for closure of Wateringbury and Farleigh?
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:47 pm

blue wrote:Peter, what is the dates for closure of Wateringbury and Farleigh?


Put off indefinitely. An earlier poster in this thread suggested not until CP8 or 2029, although the gated level crossings on the Medway Valley line will probably be updated before then. All the signalling on the route is already colour light signalling albeit with Absolute Block Aylesford to Wateringbury inclusive.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby blue » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:42 pm

Having not been inside the boxes since I left them, do they still have the lever frames and use the block indicators etc?
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby DaveHarries » Fri Apr 1, 2016 6:39 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:
blue wrote:Peter, what is the dates for closure of Wateringbury and Farleigh?


Put off indefinitely. An earlier poster in this thread suggested not until CP8 or 2029, although the gated level crossings on the Medway Valley line will probably be updated before then. All the signalling on the route is already colour light signalling albeit with Absolute Block Aylesford to Wateringbury inclusive.

Intresting that Wateringbury and Farleigh have been put off indefinitely. Does this also apply to Cuxton, Snodland, Aylesford and Maidstone West?

Also, is there a date for Canterbury West as yet? I get the impression that, now Faversham and Sittingbourne have been done, Canterbury West may soon be an island as far as the signalling goes?

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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby E D Mann » Fri Apr 1, 2016 7:05 pm

The Medway Valley won't be considered for a recontrol again until CP7 (2024-29) at the earliest.

We were told that the gated crossings - especially East Farleigh - would be automated as part of Phase 2, but it would appear that this has not occurred.

Given the massive overspend/overrun in delivering an (incomplete) Phase 2, the current financial climate and the latest RMT notice regarding the ROC scheme - which was posted here earlier, but seems to have disappeared - if/when Phase 3 happens remains to be seen. From a performance standpoint, there are other boxes in Kent arguably higher up the shopping list than Cant W.

Edit > Snodland closed a couple of years ago, Dave.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby JG Morgan » Fri Apr 1, 2016 8:25 pm

Many thanks for the diagram: very interesting (as a passenger, on and off, for almost 50 years).

It explains why the crossover just on the down side of Rainham level crossing was removed the weekend before Easter. Before seeing this diagram, I thought that the new signal at the down end of platform 1 would allow trains from the coast to terminate at Rainham and return whence they came. Not so: it is just a permanent red signal to allow trains from London to terminate in platform 1 as well as the new bay 0.
[minor edit, to make more sense]

Re the "normal" position of the points at Rochester Bridge Junction: it is as I would expect (but then I'm only a passenger, not a signaller). The line to Victoria is the main line (30 mph cf 20 to Strood) and carried the greater number of trains (at least, until HS1 opened - now an approx equal split).
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Sun Apr 3, 2016 9:30 am

JG Morgan wrote:Many thanks for the diagram: very interesting (as a passenger, on and off, for almost 50 years).

It explains why the crossover just on the down side of Rainham level crossing was removed the weekend before Easter. Before seeing this diagram, I thought that the new signal at the down end of platform 1 would allow trains from the coast to terminate at Rainham and return whence they came. Not so: it is just a permanent red signal to allow trains from London to terminate in platform 1 as well as the new bay 0.
[minor edit, to make more sense]

Re the "normal" position of the points at Rochester Bridge Junction: it is as I would expect (but then I'm only a passenger, not a signaller). The line to Victoria is the main line (30 mph cf 20 to Strood) and carried the greater number of trains (at least, until HS1 opened - now an approx equal split).


Unfortunately in respect of Rainham it also reduces the flexibility of terminating trains from the coast during engineering works and returning them back to the coast. That now is impossible at Rainham. Looks like longer bus and slower bus replacement journeys will be the norm.

With regard to the normal position of points at junctions, I mentioned that it is odd, because if you look at the junction in the Down line, it appears that the normal position is set for a conflicting move across the junction. IT was normally (but not always) the case that the normal position was set for the path of least potential conflict regardless of speed across the junction in either direction. In the case of Rochester Bridge Junction, as least before the resignalling the normal position of the points would have been:-

ER58 points normal, (trailing points in the Down Line), route would be set from Strood to Rochester
ER59 points normal, (facing points in the Up line), route set from Rochester to Sole Street
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:39 pm

Rochester power box has now been demolished. By Sunday afternoon the apart from a large pile of rubble, the only part of the former power box was some of the wall of the S & T rooms in the basement, probably because were they to be removed they might de-stabilise the embankment that the power box was built into. In any case the remnants of the wall are likely to be buried when the embankment is widened for the remaining part of the the new Down Loop. I understand that demolition started early on Saturday morning 16/04/16, as soon as the engineering possession had been granted which has lasted over the whole weekend.

Gillingham signal box also Rainham and Sittingbourne power boxes remain for the time being as does the power boxes at Shortlands Junction (abolished June 1982), Faversham (abolished December 2011), Herne Hill signal box (abolished December 1981) and Ramsgate signal box, (abolished December 2011). All the signal boxes /panels from the Kent Coast Electrification Phase 1 scheme of 1969 have now been abolished.

Only Tonbridge and Folkestone East Power Boxes are still in use from the Kent Coast Electrification scheme Phase 2 although both now control mostly different areas to the area that they were originally built for. In addition the former Hither Green power box (abolished in November 1976), Staplehurst box (abolished September 1993) still survives extant. Dover Priory signal box (abolished April 1998) also still survives extant.

Deal signal box is the very last signal box in Kent still operating semaphore signals on the National Rail system.
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Re: East Kent Resignalling Scheme Phase 2 and associated wor

Unread postby davidwoodcock » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:29 am

Peter Gibbons wrote:....... All the signal boxes /panels from the Kent Coast Electrification Phase 1 scheme of 1969 have now been abolished.......


Slight slip of the keyboard there, Phase 1 scheme of 1959 not 1969, and I suspect that the first box commissionings of that scheme may have been in 1958 rather than 1959. All seems like pre-history now!
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