Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Current and future British signalling (UK except Northern Ireland)

Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby scarpa » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:59 pm

When was the last signalling Absolute Block section abolished which did not have Welwyn Control or an alternative. A few years ago I visited a Signalbox may have been Thorpe Culvert which was suffering from subsidence and I recall the Block was free to peg at anytime.
scarpa
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:07 pm

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:43 pm

I thought Acton Canal Wharf was another example with free pulls?
User avatar
Mike Hodgson
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2411
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:30 pm
Location: N Herts

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Pete2320 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:34 pm

I'm pretty sure Oxmarsh Crossing has no Welwyn control (or approach t/c) and Goxhill and Great Coates No1 did not have it until (in Goxhills' case) the North Lincolshire resignalling last Christmas.

Pete
Pete
Pete2320
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2096
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: Barton on Humber

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby StevieG » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:06 pm

Mike Hodgson wrote:I thought Acton Canal Wharf was another example with free pulls?
I presume you mean free pulling (i.e. as many times as you like) while the non-pegger from the next box is at Line Clear Mike?
If yes, was that common?

Surely Line Clear-One Pull (or LC-One Train) could exist even where the releasing next box had no Welwyn controls on that section's Block.

As to Acton Canal Wharf, fifteen years ago (and maybe later /; still?) either there towards the next box north (Neasden Jn. [ex-MR]) or south from Dudding Hill Jn. towards NJ, and also both 'main line' ways at NJ, the section signal levers were still free at all times (no LC release) : may have still been classed as 'Line equipped for passenger trains over which there is no booked passenger service'), but there were plans to remedy that; and anyway that's not really the OP's question.
Last edited by StevieG on Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \
StevieG
Double-manned box
Double-manned box
 
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:30 am
Location: ex-GNR territory in N. Herts.

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:19 pm

No I meant Line Clear was not required (other than by the rules) to pull at least one of the starters.
User avatar
Mike Hodgson
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2411
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:30 pm
Location: N Herts

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby LowdhamGPR » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:27 pm

Barnetby East section signal on the Goods to Wrawby was a free pull. No. 46

A reminder sat on the block shelf above the lever and was placed upon the lever after the train had passed and the signal was returned to danger until such time as TOS was received from Wrawby.

Image

My photo btw

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@ ... datetaken/
LowdhamGPR
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Nov 8, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:52 am

There was a programme of installing Line Clear Releases on section signals after an incident, possibly the Hall Road one but I would need to check on that. This requirement did not apply to Goods Lines, hence the situation at Acton Canal Wharf, Barnetby East and many other places.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6644
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:14 pm

Scarpa,

Please don't mistake Welwyn controls for line clear releases as these are two different controls, the former in the accepting box and the latter in the sending box. It is perfectly possible for Welwyn controls to be provided at one box whilst its neighbour had no line clear release (although unlikely).
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby StevieG » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:25 am

Fast Line Floyd wrote:Scarpa,

Please don't mistake Welwyn controls for line clear releases as these are two different controls, the former in the accepting box and the latter in the sending box. It is perfectly possible for Welwyn controls to be provided at one box whilst its neighbour had no line clear release (although unlikely).
..... and vice versa.
Just the point I was trying to make earlier.
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \
StevieG
Double-manned box
Double-manned box
 
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:30 am
Location: ex-GNR territory in N. Herts.

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby kbarber » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:14 am

Fast Line Floyd wrote:Scarpa,

Please don't mistake Welwyn controls for line clear releases as these are two different controls, the former in the accepting box and the latter in the sending box. It is perfectly possible for Welwyn controls to be provided at one box whilst its neighbour had no line clear release (although unlikely).

Junction Road - Upper Holloway was one section where this configuration existed, with Welwyn Control at Junction Road (not sure when from, but certainly there well before I knew it in late '78) but free starters at Holloway until the spring of 1979.
User avatar
kbarber
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:12 pm
Location: London

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Richard Pike » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:32 pm

How many cases of switchable Welwyn control were out there? I have a circuit diagram for CTOL/full Welwyn control for Wisbech Junction..
Richard..
Richard Pike
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: GN(southern area)

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:32 pm

Richard Pike wrote:How many cases of switchable Welwyn control were out there? I have a circuit diagram for CTOL/full Welwyn control for Wisbech Junction..

A new one on me...
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Richard Pike » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:12 pm

Fast Line Floyd wrote:A new one on me...


Wizbang Junction circuit extract...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/31073724412/

The red is from me added to the photo not the original.

WSE box diagram..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/8899181719/

D track circuit was shown in both boxes. I think the Welwyn control became active when WSE switched out. With WSE in the block was Compulsory Train On Line not OAB.

Wisbech Junction box diagram.. Unfortunately not from the same era as WSE but the location of WSE can be seen in the rationalised pointwork. WSE3 would have been slotted with WJ11

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/8899800680/
Richard..
Richard Pike
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: GN(southern area)

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:54 pm

Richard Pike wrote:
Fast Line Floyd wrote:A new one on me...


Wizbang Junction circuit extract...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32297024@N08/31073724412/

The red is from me added to the photo not the original.

WSE box diagram..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/8899181719/

D track circuit was shown in both boxes. I think the Welwyn control became active when WSE switched out. With WSE in the block was Compulsory Train On Line not OAB.

Wisbech Junction box diagram.. Unfortunately not from the same era as WSE but the location of WSE can be seen in the rationalised pointwork. WSE3 would have been slotted with WJ11

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/8899800680/

Ah the fact of a common TC between the boxes but that the box in rear could close makes perfect sense to the fact the the Welwyn could be turned on or off.
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Absolute Block Welwyn Controls

Unread postby Chris Rideout » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:38 pm

Fast Line Floyd wrote:Scarpa,
Please don't mistake Welwyn controls for line clear releases as these are two different controls, the former in the accepting box and the latter in the sending box. It is perfectly possible for Welwyn controls to be provided at one box whilst its neighbour had no line clear release (although unlikely).

I shall add to this one: The free lever on a section signal is a feature of "open block". Welwyn controls are provided on "closed block" and can sound a warning buzzer if a train hits a berth track circuit approaching the home signal unless the block indicator in in the TOL position. Other variations are an automatic TOL if the berth t/c is hit when the signalman forgets (or does not have time) to turn the commutator after receiving the entering section bell code. This is handy when the sections are short and the boxes are busy.
Chris Rideout
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:59 pm
Location: Sunny South Coast

Next

Return to Signalling - current

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests