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Thameslink ERTMS signalling

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 6, 2017 9:45 pm
by scarpa
ERTMS 2 A.T.O. signalling will be operational shortly on the Thameslink line. If a technical fault arises within 30 seconds trains will stop, and trains could then be driven by the train driver. My question is if only one direction of travel is affected will the other line still operate in A.T.O. mode? What affect if a failure occurs beyond Blackfriars where there are junctions and will this disable the other line and converging lines A.T.O? Once the fault is cleared how would A.T.O. be resumed?

Re: Thameslink ERTMS signalling

Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 8, 2017 6:20 pm
by left
Surely depends on the type of failure. I can't find any details about how the ERTMS is structured, those would clear up a couple of things.
Once a train is able to connect again with the ETCS RBC (and everything else runs smoothly) the driver will probably need only to press the ATO button.

Re: Thameslink ERTMS signalling

Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:31 pm
by Fast Line Floyd
left wrote:Surely depends on the type of failure. I can't find any details about how the ERTMS is structured, those would clear up a couple of things.
Once a train is able to connect again with the ETCS RBC (and everything else runs smoothly) the driver will probably need only to press the ATO button.

ATO is a function of the train not the ETCS (ERTMS) therefore it should only affect the train involved. I was under the impression that ATO will not be brought into use until the ETCS system is proven in traffic.

Re: Thameslink ERTMS signalling

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:10 pm
by left
Well yes, if we are talking about an ATO failure. The OP's question wasn't clear (to me).
If the failure is only on the train (at that point eventually driven by the driver) and regards only ATO, all the other trains can safely continue ATO operation, same direction included, ERTMS takes care of safe operation.

If however scarpa meant an ERTMS failure, it becomes more complicated to say what happens in case of (which) failure, the variables are many and one should know a few details about the project.

Re: Thameslink ERTMS signalling

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:46 am
by Fast Line Floyd
left wrote:Well yes, if we are talking about an ATO failure. The OP's question wasn't clear (to me).
If the failure is only on the train (at that point eventually driven by the driver) and regards only ATO, all the other trains can safely continue ATO operation, same direction included, ERTMS takes care of safe operation.

If however scarpa meant an ERTMS failure, it becomes more complicated to say what happens in case of (which) failure, the variables are many and one should know a few details about the project.

Indeed, the Thameslink core route is continuing to have fixed signals at their current positions and the ERTMS is an overlay, there are ERTMS block markers between some of the signals which trains running under ERTMS can run up to when the forward section to the next signal is occupied but if a train is running with ERTMS turned off then the said train will be held at the signal in rear. It will be seen from this that without ERTMS operating the capacity of the line will be reduced.

The route is also equipped with POSA aspects on all signals so if the working gets so degraded that even normal signals can't be used then the POSA aspects will at least keep trains moving (albeit slowly) provided that the points still have detection.