Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Technical talk on signalling matters

Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Fri Mar 4, 2016 7:17 pm

The Epping Signal Cabin restoration project requires information regarding the track circuit nomenclatures preferably for the original layout from 1947 although the layout at closure will reveal most of what we need.

Any help in this matter would be greatfully received.
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Fri Mar 4, 2016 8:20 pm

The original Traffic Notice (No.30 of 1949) for opening is available on the SRS Research Note No.42. This shows all of the signalling layout. The box was opened on Sunday 14 August 1949.
Regards,
S&TEngineer
-----------------------------------------------------
Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
Henry IV, Part 1, Act 2, Scene 3
User avatar
S&TEngineer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Somewhere in the far South West

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Fri Mar 4, 2016 8:30 pm

S&TEngineer wrote:The original Traffic Notice (No.30 of 1949) for opening is available on the SRS Research Note No.42. This shows all of the signalling layout. The box was opened on Sunday 15 August 1949.

Thanks Chris
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Pete2320 » Sun Mar 6, 2016 11:35 pm

It's also here on Harsigs' site http://harsig.org/Central.htm

Pete
Pete
Pete2320
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: Barton on Humber

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:43 am

Pete2320 wrote:It's also here on Harsigs' site http://harsig.org/Central.htm

Pete

Yes look here but my browser won't blow them up to a readable size without the the whole lot going out of focus
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Mar 7, 2016 10:14 am

Try saving the file and opening it in Adobe Reader. The detail is definitely there.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6837
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby davidwoodcock » Mon Mar 7, 2016 10:41 am

Saving the file and then opening it worked fine for me without having to use Adobe Reader. The saved file is 710KB. It would be possible to crop it to include just the area controlled by Epping box.
davidwoodcock
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:58 am
Location: Champlon, Belgique

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Mon Mar 7, 2016 12:11 pm

I'm trying to get my head round this, as I'm not familiar with LT practice. What sort of equipment would the Shunter's Plungers operate - lamps, needle indicators in the box? And would these be restored automatically by setting up the required route, or would the signalman have to operate some form of cancelling switch to reset?

Also what signals would be proved off before Epping Outer Distant would clear - LW2, LW3, LW4 and LW6, plus fog repeaters if lit or only into the platform? Wouldn't it be irrelevant to anything besides the infrequent freight trains ?
User avatar
Mike Hodgson
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2478
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:30 pm
Location: N Herts

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Mon Mar 7, 2016 1:10 pm

Mike Hodgson wrote:I'm trying to get my head round this, as I'm not familiar with LT practice. What sort of equipment would the Shunter's Plungers operate - lamps, needle indicators in the box? And would these be restored automatically by setting up the required route, or would the signalman have to operate some form of cancelling switch to reset?

Also what signals would be proved off before Epping Outer Distant would clear - LW2, LW3, LW4 and LW6, plus fog repeaters if lit or only into the platform? Wouldn't it be irrelevant to anything besides the infrequent freight trains ?

The shunter's plungers released certain signals along the Shunting Neck and the Yard, by the signalman pulling 42 point lever to the mid position this released 39 lever which permitted the shunter to set routes to and from the neck depending on which plungers were pressed. The shunter also had a plunger to release levers 35 and 43 to access the yard. The shunter's plungers were repeated on the box diagram and were active for one move only and in the case of levers 35 and 43 active for only 15 seconds.

As far as we know the fog repeaters were not proved in the distant signals but we do not have any of the original box circuit diagrams so a degree of guess work is involved.
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Mon Mar 7, 2016 7:50 pm

Thanks Graham
User avatar
Mike Hodgson
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2478
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:30 pm
Location: N Herts

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Mon Mar 7, 2016 9:11 pm

It's worth mentioning that the set up at Epping although belonging to LUL was also signed off by the Eastern Region of BR because the freight traffic and certain of the passenger trains were BR as opposed to LUL.
Graham
User avatar
Fast Line Floyd
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Raunds

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Pete2320 » Tue Mar 8, 2016 11:06 am

Fast Line Floyd wrote: .
As far as we know the fog repeaters were not proved in the distant signals but we do not have any of the original box circuit diagrams so a degree of guess work is involved.

It would seem very unlikely as FRs' could be switched off. I think they were also simply wired off the main signal relay and generally LT do not use lamp proving, the train stop is deemed sufficient.

Pete
Pete
Pete2320
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: Barton on Humber

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby S&TEngineer » Tue Mar 8, 2016 5:19 pm

Pete2320 wrote:
Fast Line Floyd wrote: .
As far as we know the fog repeaters were not proved in the distant signals but we do not have any of the original box circuit diagrams so a degree of guess work is involved.

It would seem very unlikely as FRs' could be switched off. I think they were also simply wired off the main signal relay and generally LT do not use lamp proving, the train stop is deemed sufficient.Pete

But that doesn't stop the FGR picking, only extingushes the lamp feeds. Reading the Traffic Notice I do however get the impression that only the stop signals were proved off in the distant. A interesting point is that Rule 39B was stated as not applying and after passing the distant disc at caution the driver could find any of the repeated signals off with the next one in the sequence on.

I'm searching through my archives to see if I have any circuits (calling MRFS).

LT do use lamp proving on the multiple aspect sections of lines under its control (i.e. Met Line between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham).
Regards,
S&TEngineer
-----------------------------------------------------
Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
Henry IV, Part 1, Act 2, Scene 3
User avatar
S&TEngineer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Somewhere in the far South West

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby tjc » Tue Mar 8, 2016 9:55 pm

FPGR circuits are normally externally fed (often taking their feed from the Red Light Circuit of the associated signal from t5 on the 10 core box to the associated signal's trainstop). Selection is generally V 'off' 3/3.3, GR 3F/3A, TR front contact (any spare other than 1F/1A).

The lighting circuit was the one featuring the FR contact, with the FR (PO Relay) often in the same case as the FPGR.
User avatar
tjc
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Londonium Subsolaneum

Re: Track Circuit Nomenclatures for Epping Signal Cabin

Unread postby Harsig » Tue Mar 8, 2016 10:40 pm

S&TEngineer wrote:I'm searching through my archives to see if I have any circuits (calling MRFS).


In my collection I have an out of date copy of the strip prints for the local lines between Harrow and Watford South Junction. Although the prints date from after the distant signals on this section were decommissioned there is enough left to be able to reconstruct the circuits with a reasonable degree of certainty. The installation on this section of line is later than the installation at Epping so may not be directly comparable.
In general the circuit for the distant signal will prove each signal is off either by passing over a contact on that signal's associated PGR (if provided and conveniently located) or by passing over a contact on the GR and also an 'off' contact on the trainstop.
The link below is to a quick sketch I've produced showing the circuits for the Northwood Hills Inner and Outer Southbound Distants

http://www.harsig.org/PDF/NwdHllsDistants.pdf
User avatar
Harsig
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:13 pm

Next

Return to S&T Department

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests