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Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:54 pm
by S&TEngineer
Has anybody ever seen or had access to the circuits used for the Siemens power frame installed at this site in the 1920s? I would be interested in seeing them if so.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:32 pm
by JRB
Gone from Reading archives long before I was there. Someone may have taken them home about 1933, but..... . . . . . .

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:40 am
by Shunter
I have seen a book, many years ago now, which had a chapter on the Siemens signalling at Winchester Chesil and had many photos of the installation and a detailed description of the box. Of course, I now can't remember its title, but it almost certainly a history of the whole DN&S line. Not much to go on but....................

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:11 pm
by S&TEngineer
Shunter wrote:I have seen a book, many years ago now, which had a chapter on the Siemens signalling at Winchester Chesil and had many photos of the installation and a detailed description of the box. Of course, I now can't remember its title, but it almost certainly a history of the whole DN&S line. Not much to go on but....................

Hi Shunter, Yes I have that book (The Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway by Wild Swan) but it only has a general description of the installation and its operation. I'm after, and yes I know its a very long shot after all this time, the actual circuitry.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:39 pm
by S&TEngineer
I have now found the Patent for the principles involved (No.125028 of 10 April 1919). This has some basic wiring diagrams attached. I also understand that a full locking table and set of wiring drawings were included in the May 1923 Railway Engineer magazine. I'm on the outlook for a copy and suspect I might find one at KEW Archives but thats a bit far for me to travel at present.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:49 am
by John Webb
I think the "Search Engine" at the NRM has a full set of the Railway Engineer - possible they could supply a copy at some expense but still cheaper than travelling there or to Kew? Or if you can wait until late September I'm planning to spend a day at the "Search Engine" looking up some more MR items and might be able to look it up for you.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:26 am
by S&TEngineer
John Webb wrote:I think the "Search Engine" at the NRM has a full set of the Railway Engineer - possible they could supply a copy at some expense but still cheaper than travelling there or to Kew? Or if you can wait until late September I'm planning to spend a day at the "Search Engine" looking up some more MR items and might be able to look it up for you.

PM sent.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:33 pm
by scarpa
Although used as a test bed for a number of years ,why if it was successful was the power frame removed and a standard frame re-installed? A similar power signalling frame was installed at Slough Bath Road but with power operated points with the compressor housed in the nearby loco shed, this to was removed and a W. R. frame installed.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:31 pm
by JRB
It can be difficult & expensive to maintain a 'one-off' installtion.

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:36 pm
by Gunnar Ekeving
A low-quality copy of the 1923 Railway Engineer article:

http://ekeving.se/ext/uk/Winchester_GWR_RE_May_1923.pdf

alas no wiring diagrams :(

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:10 pm
by S&TEngineer
Gunnar Ekeving wrote:A low-quality copy of the 1923 Railway Engineer article:
http://ekeving.se/ext/uk/Winchester_GWR_RE_May_1923.pdf
alas no wiring diagrams :(


Thanks very much for providing the document. The Patent document I referred to in an earlier post has some circuits and they do give a good overview of how the system worked. For its time it was a very advanced system. Don't think we are going to find out much more now (but as always 'never say never').

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:20 pm
by Pete2320
Presumably the circuits would be similar to those at Newport East and West which have more chance of surviving. Or do you believe it to be different? As to its removal, could it have been for spares at Newport? That said, the frame was essentially a standard SGE frame and I don't think there was anything special in the equipment. But I would have said that of the BPRS electric frames if I didn't know different!

Re: Winchester Chesil - Siemens Power Frame Circuits

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:36 pm
by S&TEngineer
Pete2320 wrote:Presumably the circuits would be similar to those at Newport East and West which have more chance of surviving. Or do you believe it to be different? As to its removal, could it have been for spares at Newport? That said, the frame was essentially a standard SGE frame and I don't think there was anything special in the equipment. But I would have said that of the BPRS electric frames if I didn't know different!

Pete, as far as I can tell, Winchester was the 'prototype' test bed for the larger Newport East and West installations. I am 'guessing' at present that, as it was a patented system, that all three installations would have been the same (but seeing the circuits for Newport would confirm that one way or the other against what I have now seen for the patent application and the Winchester installation).

The only difference that I can see at present between the patent and the other installations was that the WHITE track circuit clear indication did not appear until the lever was moved to its first N to R 'check lock' position whereas in the patent it was lit all the time the track circuit was clear, regardless of lever position.

I do have a Locking Chart for Newport West (with unfortunately a bit missing due to age). This is marked up with alterations that look to be stageworks for the 1961 Newport area resignalling but you can work out the locking and route setting principles from it.