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Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:38 pm
by Pete2320
I've been sorting through some "Q" style relays which have lost their labels so trying to identify them from pin position and what they look like inside and information from the Siemens (Australia!) and Mors Smit websites plus a RSSB document. On the whole I've been successful but there remains a few puzzlers.
If anybody can give me some help on the ones below it will be appreciated
Pincode 164
Pincode 165
Both the above seem to be point contactors but presumably different to each other. The relays concerned have what might be codes beginning ZU.

Pin positions BCEFH.
It's either a relay with very light contacts or transformer-rectifier-condensor unit. There are both of which I only know the pin positions but missed writing one down!

There are also a few relays which I've identified but would like a bit more information about
807 QSU Looks like an ordinary line relay, not many contacts. What's special about it that makes it not a QN?
042 QN3 Again what's the difference between QN3 and QN1?
Finally (for now!) there are some 1059, QJN1. These appear to be a thermal timer and a line relay in one case. Can anybody supply a wiring/connection diagram for these.

Thanks for any help forthcoming. Therefore bound to be more, certainly one!

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:59 pm
by Nicko
If you search the web for the relevant q code you will find Siemens (formerly Westinghouse) data sheets for relevant relays. The data sheet for thermal timer includes internal wiring diagram.

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:29 pm
by Pete2320
Thanks Nicko, I've done that for the ones I've got as far as Q codes for. However that leaves the 164, 165 and the BCEFH.
The QSU turns out not to be a relay at all but what I've got clearly is. It is supposed to be a relay base with permanent connections as a test unit (in lace of a relay in Geographical sets) and available in a variety of pin codes including 807.
For completeness, QN3 is a lamp proving relay.

Pete

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:59 pm
by Andrew Waugh
Pete2320 wrote:I've been sorting through some "Q" style relays which have lost their labels so trying to identify them from pin position...
Pincode 164
Pincode 165
Both the above seem to be point contactors but presumably different to each other. The relays concerned have what might be codes beginning ZU.

Pin positions BCEFH.
It's either a relay with very light contacts or transformer-rectifier-condensor unit. There are both of which I only know the pin positions but missed writing one down!


According to Railway Group Guidance Note GKGN 630 Issue 1...

Pin Codes 0164 and 0165 are both DC Biased Point Contactor Relays with high drop away. The difference is that 164 is 50V, and 165 is 24V.
BCEFH is Pin Code 0135 and is a 'Track Circuit Transient Suppressor Unit'

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:21 am
by Pete2320
Thanks Andrew. Would it be reasonable to assume that the 0135 is the one that appears to be a transformer/rectifier/ condensor group?

Pete

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:53 am
by Andrew Waugh
Yes.

The document I referenced can be found here: https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GK ... ss%201.pdf

If you haven't done so, goggling 'BR930' will find quite a bit on this type of plug in relay family ('Q style' is Westinghouse's product family of relays to the BR930 standard).

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:25 pm
by Pete2320
Andrew Waugh wrote:Yes.

The document I referenced can be found here: https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GK ... ss%201.pdf

If you haven't done so, goggling 'BR930' will find quite a bit on this type of plug in relay family ('Q style' is Westinghouse's product family of relays to the BR930 standard).

Thanks for the link Andrew. I tend to use the Q codes because they give a clue what what the relay does although the ones in question are by no means all of Westinghouse manufacture.

Pete

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:32 pm
by Pete2320
The 807 relay (or is it 870?) turns out to be a 50v twin, 5F3B+5F3B, with palladium contacts. Palladium is worth a fortune, more valuable than platinum. As there is a QSU to this pincode is it reasonable to assume that this relay was only used in Geographical Units. And why palladium contacts?

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 9, 2018 8:58 pm
by tjc
From memory the Central line uses QLH relays with Palladium in directional code selection circuits, I think to minimise voltage drop.

They also use QSU's as code busbar units.

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:31 pm
by Chris Rideout
Try this:

http://www.morssmitt.com/railway/files/Documents/BRO-Q-style%20relays%20V2.2.pdf

Certainly tells me more than I need to know.

Re: Q style relay identification.

Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:18 pm
by tjc
There are a few variants not listed there - QMTs, QLH1, and the various 'specials' produced for different clients.