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Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

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Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Roger Bell » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:02 pm

Having recovered the frame from Brandon ( pictured in link below) for eventual re-use in Sheringham West box, we find ourselves short of a few catch handles. It seems unlikely that any originals of this pattern will be easy to come by so we may have to resort to making from scratch or adapting more conventional ones.
The reason for posting is to try and establish where else these might have been in use in the past bearing in mind that they differ from the GN Duplex style as shown in the SSG Guide to Mechanical Locking Frames. Dutton catch handles are similar at first glance but are quite different in detail.
Despite being listed as a GN Duplex, our frame shows no sign of ever having been other than direct tappet locked. It has GNR LEEDS cast on the standards and end quadrants but was obviously rebuilt to suit installation at Brandon in 1931. The standards and base castings are S&F 1888 pattern.
Do we have a unique frame? Any thoughts to solve the mystery appreciated.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/7840925446/
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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Richard Pike » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:59 pm

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Roger Bell » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:25 pm

Thanks Richard - on the right lines but these are quite different to Brandon. High Dyke levers look similar to Pelham Street which was a GN Duplex.
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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Richard Pike » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:28 pm

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Roger Bell » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:36 pm

Many thanks Richard,
The picture is more like High Dyke, Pelham Street ( see below) and the GN Duplex one in the frames Guide

http://tillyweb.biz/gallery/pp/pelhamstfrm.jpg

So, the answer is still out there somewhere ......

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby John Hinson » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:22 am

The catch-handles in those pictures all look the same to me, and are typical of the GN (or Tyer & Co) Duplex type.

Brandon box opened in 1931 so the frame would obviously have been second-hand. LNER and BR(ER) second-hand frames were re-cycled through Leyton Works and would often re-appear with many new parts and almost always were fitted with standard "GE" tappet locking.

These frames were never common (examples also existed at Hatfield, Spalding (2), Peterborough and Doncaster) and I suspect the chances of finding many parts for them now would be difficult.

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Ashley Hill » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:49 am

The Brandon catch handles look quite different to the rest. They start to curve gently from the base of the handle whereas the others start straight and then either curve or kink out higher up.
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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Roger Bell » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:49 am

I have compared a Brandon catch handle with the Duplex lever pictured above in our "stores" at Weybourne and can confirm they are different.

As the markings on the end quadrants suggest that parts were cast by the GNR in Leeds, I am now wondering if a pattern for the cast catch handles was made to a GN spec. In fact, going back to the Frames Guide ( P98 ) the description of GN Tappet frames fits in nicely with what we have from Brandon. There is a picture of the preserved Botany Bay ( status unknown) frame showing the lower part of the levers on that page but not the catch handles.

John - thanks for the note of the other boxes. You are right of course that the frame was re-cycled specifically for use at Brandon but unusually, it was not fitted with standard locking.

I have all but given up hope that we will find like for like replacements but the search has sparked my interest from a historical angle.

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby John Hinson » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:05 am

Roger Bell wrote:John - thanks for the note of the other boxes. You are right of course that the frame was re-cycled specifically for use at Brandon but unusually, it was not fitted with standard locking.

What was non-standard about the tappet locking, Roger?

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Roger Bell » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:16 am

What I understand to be "standard" in LNER times and later is that loose dies are used with studs in the bridles. The bits of locking we recovered with Brandon had the wedges riveted to the bridles and being wider than the loose dies.
Incidentally, we are re- locking using LNER ( sometimes referred to as NE ) standard.

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby John Hinson » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:54 pm

OK, thanks. Far too techncial to me but the type of locking I would have expected to find is the type referred to as "GE" locking despite being rather more widespread than that. It take it you are saying this is not of that type. Fair enough . . .

Best regards,

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Fast Line Floyd » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:51 pm

When I photographed Brandon box in January 2008, the underneath was also photographed and the frame looked exactly like a GN duplex but relocked to a straight tappet at some stage in the past. The frame must have come to pieces quite easily as in my photos there are drops of oil on the end of ever bolt that appears in the photos.
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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Roger Bell » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:52 pm

Graham
It certainly came to pieces ok. The oil helped but the outstanding efforts of "Mr P and Co" were the main reason!

I know I am sounding a bit pedantic here all in the cause of a nice uniform line of catch handles - Brandon does look exactly like a Saxby and Farmer 1888 duplex whereas the GN duplex ( according to the book ) is basically a S&F 1905 duplex but with bent catch handles. On the previous page, the GN Tappet frame is stated that it " could be mistaken for an 1888 S&F duplex".

Thanks to all for your replies - I will try and sleep tonight :)

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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Richard Pike » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:54 pm

How close are the Dutton handles you have? Can you use them? With TSB and WJ you should have plenty.

The locking wasn't what i was expecting. The trays are very much LNER standard cast versions. Very different from the Leyton standard 'it fits if i make it fit' trays. As Roger mentions the bridles and locking dies were riveted together.
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Re: Cylindrical Catch Handles - Brandon

Unread postby Ashley Hill » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:45 pm

Would it be possible to have new cast using an origional as a pattern? Even allowing for shrinkage and machining you would still have something that would at least look identical from the front of the frame.
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