Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

Austrian Distant Landmark

Signalling outside the UK (but including Northern Ireland), past, present and future

Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby stevej » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:34 am

G'day,

I am hoping that someone may have information regarding a possible landmark style OeBB distant signal. I have seen this signal in You Tube video clips featuring the Gmundnerbahn and Vorchdorferbahn cab ride videos. This particular signal appears to be a black board with two yellow targets, not the normal colour light type. I am guessing that the indication is as per a landmark, always approach the home at caution.

Immer erwarten halt.

This signal is on the approach to Lambach. The hauptsignal displays langsamfahrt in each video. If this particular signal is a constant expect halt, it is not identified in the Austrian signal documentation that I possess. I am wondering if this is a unique application.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00zit1uNP3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ9NQkvhw1U

thanks,

Steve.
User avatar
stevej
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:05 am
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby Ulf Pålsson » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:56 pm

The black board with the two yellow circles/”dots” horizontally is the Austrian equivalent of the British reflectorised board which replaces a distant signal at ”caution”. The two dots yellow dots symbolize the two yellow lights from an Austrian Vorsignal (distant signal) indicating “Vorsicht” (“caution”).

The Austrian document V2 Signalvorschrift (Signal rules), section III Distant signals, § 6 (3), says: “When the locally allowed speed is up to and including 60 km/h, the light signal indication ‘caution’ can also be displayed [from a] reflectorised [board].”
Ulf Pålsson
Trainee
Trainee
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 9, 2013 12:52 pm

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby stevej » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:22 am

G'day Ulf,
Thanks for that information.
This confirms that I have indeed seen an Austrian Landmark style Distant for colour light signalling.
I now wonder just how many of these exist on the OeBB system.
I firstly delved into German signalling after viewing some You Tube cab ride video clips.
I then moved across the border into Austria.
There is a subtle difference between the two countries signal systems.
Steve.
User avatar
stevej
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:05 am
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby hmmueller » Mon Aug 8, 2016 7:04 pm

... whatever you consider "subtle" :). For me, it is a little more - but yes, they are closely related.
I do not know the number of fixed distant signals with reflectors in Austria, but I would guess around a few dozen.

H.M.
==== Austrian signal boxes and interlockings (German and English), with some looks beyond ====
User avatar
hmmueller
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:24 pm
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby stevej » Tue Aug 9, 2016 3:35 am

G'day H M,
Both the German and Austrian systems are very different to the NSWR system that I am used to.
And yes, are themselves different.
But, I can identify similarities between the two systems.
Though, I tend to remember the German terminology more than the Austrian terminology.
When ever I notice something that is slightly different to that normally utilized, I get interested.
Hence my interest about the vorsignal abstandstafel.
I possess many more German cab ride video clips than Austrian, having firstly delved into those available on You Tube.
I had only noticed in total three of the reflectorized distant signals.
So, it is interesting that there may be a number more on the OeBB system.
Thanks also for the Austrian web site link.
I am rummaging around it there.
Steve.
User avatar
stevej
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:05 am
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby Frank » Tue Aug 9, 2016 10:08 am

Hello SteveJ,


I had only noticed in total three of the reflectorized distant signals.
So, it is interesting that there may be a number more on the OeBB system.


Not really , 3 distant marker (Vorsignalbaken) are the normal placement here. But with bad conditions of view it cann also be
5 distant marker .

The same Rule applys to the distant signal himself,in bad conditions it can be repeated (technical only Colour Light Signals).


regards

Frank
User avatar
Frank
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Dortmund-Rhine Westphalia- Germany

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby hmmueller » Tue Aug 9, 2016 12:52 pm

Hi Frank -

we are not (I think - Steve?) talking about distant markers (called "Abstandstafel", not "Vorsignalbaken" - see V2, §13), but about the reflective version of a (colour light) distant signal.

And distant signals cannot be repeated, rather, the stop signal itself is mirrored using a "signal imitator", to use a verbatim translation of the Austrian term "Signalnachahmer".

... nice examples of some of those subtle - or not so subtle - differences :)

H.M.
==== Austrian signal boxes and interlockings (German and English), with some looks beyond ====
User avatar
hmmueller
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:24 pm
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby Frank » Tue Aug 9, 2016 10:44 pm

Hello HM,

that
Abstandstafel (auch Vorsignalbake genannt) § 13 (20)
Vorsignale werden durch Abstandstafeln angekündigt. Standardmäßig werden 3 Tafeln verwendet. Bei schlechter Sichtbarkeit (Tunnels oder enge Kurven) werden bis zu 5 Tafeln verwendet. Bei Streckengeschwindigkeiten bis 60 km/h genügt eine Tafel.

is here called Vorsignalbake with the same Rules as mentioned above in the Austrian Rules Book.

Totally divergent ist the colour light Distant Signal
Vorsicht § 6 (1)
(Hauptsignal zeigt halt) (two yellow Lamps horitontal ore a metal Plate with reflectors.
In Germany a metal Plate with reflectors with that kind is a Crossing Signal = Bü 0 Stop bevor Level Crossing


and say it with Obama
And distant signals cannot be repeated

yes we can 8)
http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/Deutschla ... 92011.html

The white light shows the Train Driver that this distant signal is a Repeater (also the missing PZB-Magnet).
Here the Type KS-Signals
http://bahn-seminar.info/Signale/Ks-Signale/


To that
the stop signal itself is mirrored using a "signal imitator", to use a verbatim translation of the Austrian term "Signalnachahmer".


A Signal Nachahmer like that kind
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/43897171.jpg

was here in use to until 1959.With the upcoming electric Relay Boxes like Siemens and Lorenz the Administration would no longer
like to fit Cable from Interlocking to the Platform for security purpose.
In the old days the Signal Nachahmer where direct coupled with the mechanical Signal Arm (Flügelstrom-Schließer).


regards

Frank
User avatar
Frank
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Dortmund-Rhine Westphalia- Germany

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby stevej » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:32 am

G'day Frank and H M,
I must apologize for my poor German language skill.
Yes, I had mistakenly referred to the reflectorized vorsignal as an abstandstafel.
I possess the 2014 OeBB V3 at home, in which the reflector version of the vorsignal is mentioned.
My memory gets confused at times.
And, I tend to remember the German terminology rather than the Austrian terminology.
Vorsignalbake I do know as being the vorsignal distance count down signs, but had not connected them to the Austrian term of abstandstafel.
And another example of the subtle differences between DB and OeBB signale, the OeBB kennziechnung three shield plates announcing the approach to a hauptsignal.
Only the single shield utilized in DB attached to the actual hauptsignal post.
I have managed to google the OeBB V2 signalbuch here at the library, but that does not appear to mention the reflectorized vorsignal version.
I will gradually come to understand both systems.
Steve.
User avatar
stevej
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:05 am
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby Frank » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:04 am

User avatar
Frank
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Dortmund-Rhine Westphalia- Germany

Re: Austrian Distant Landmark

Unread postby stevej » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:10 am

G'day Frank,
Thanks for the links.
Steve.
User avatar
stevej
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:05 am
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia


Return to Signalling - overseas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests