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Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

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Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby stevej » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:13 am

G'day Ulf and others,
I have been viewing some Swedish cab ride video clips and have noticed level crossing distant signals.
When on double track, the normal running direction distant signal displaying three steady yellows.
However, for the bi-directional running track, the distant displays three flashing yellows.
Obviously, both sides of the level crossing must be secured for the train to proceed.
And, the level crossing signal for the normal running direction does display white for proceed.
I can only presume that the bi-directional running distant signals flash due to bi-directional working not being utilized.
In the same manner that bi-directional running main signals display stop when bi-directional working is not utilized.
I have also witnessed a train emergency stop occurring at a normal free-standing distant signal.
Due to the camera position in the cab, it is not possible to detect the distant signal indication.
Though, it does appear to be blank.
At position roughly 26.54 in the video clip linked below.
No warning alarm is heard prior to the emergency brake application which occurs at the distant signal.
The air is restored and the train then continues.
The main signal is then passed at speed with no further penalty problem.
Again, due to the camera location, it is not possible to detect the display in the main signal.
I am curious as to whether this would be a driver initiated emergency or initiated by the ATC system, and why.
I am presuming that the ATC system would provide an alarm if train speed is too fast for a restricted signal or track speed.
And, then initiate a train brake application if the driver does not respond correctly.
Steve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBNx6yOHCs
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby JRB » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:24 am

In some other countries (Belgium?) wrong line signals are distinguished by flashing.
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby davidwoodcock » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:09 am

JRB is correct regarding the use of flashing aspects for wrong line signals in Belgium. Double track lines are universally fully signalled for bi-directional working and I believe have been since the first c/l signalling was introduced. It makes it easy for drivers to distinguish which signal is "their's".
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby stevej » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:23 am

G'day JRB and David,
According to the Swedish signal info that I possess, Level Crossing signals are distinct from Running signals.
Three steady yellows in the level crossing distant signal indicates that the level crossing signal displays white for proceed.
Three flashing yellows in the distant and the level crossing signal displays red for stop, protection is not functioning.
Unfortunately due to camera angle, I am not able to detect the bi-directional track level crossing signal indications, whether white or red.
The level crossing distant signals are easier to observe.
I gather that these are in a similar concept to level crossing signals used in Japan which are also distinct from running signals.
The reason suggested for Japan being that numerous level crossings can exist in between normal running signals.
If any one level crossing has failed and the crossing protection was interlocked with main running signals, then the whole section would be blocked.
Your mention of Belgium flashing signals for bi-directional running signals is interesting.
I must now see if I can google any Belgian signal info.
Steve.
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby StevieG » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:38 am

stevej wrote: " .... Your mention of Belgium flashing signals for bi-directional running signals is interesting. .... "
... And in case of query, last time I saw them (at least 20 years ago) the flashing included the red aspect of the 'wrong'-direction bi-di signals.
BZOH

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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby davidwoodcock » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:45 pm

StevieG wrote:
stevej wrote: " .... Your mention of Belgium flashing signals for bi-directional running signals is interesting. .... "
... And in case of query, last time I saw them (at least 20 years ago) the flashing included the red aspect of the 'wrong'-direction bi-di signals.


...... and still does, even when trains are running wrong road (as frequently happens) and even if the "right" road is actually out of commission (lifted in the course of renewal for example).
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby Ulf Pålsson » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:11 pm

Hello, Steve

About LC distant signals and LC signals on double track lines in Sweden: All double track lines in Sweden are bidirectional. In fact they are signalled as if there were two parallel single track lines. Even if left hand running is the most common way to operate on a double track line, one cannot really talk about a "normal" side of running. The two tracks are called "up track" and "down track", referring to the left hand track for a train with an even or uneven train (operating) number respectively (even train numbers are used in the "up direction" and uneven numbers in the "down" direction). Each of the tracks has its own LC Equipment, so to speak, for both directions. The LC signal will indicate "movement authorised" (white light) for the track for which the LC Equipment is operating correctly for an approaching train. The LC signal for the other track will continue to indicate "stop" (red light) until there is a train approaching on that track and the LC Equipment is proved to operate correctly for that track. The LC distant signals for one track (in both direction) will just mirror the indication of the LC signal for that track (flashing three yellow lights in the form of a letter 'V', or steady three yellow lights, respectively). You could describe it as there are two LC equipments, one for each track, but both using the same pair of barriers and set or signals towards the road traffic.
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby Frank » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:55 pm

Hello Ulf,

in most Countrys automatic Level Crossing on Double Track Lines are build as Single Line Crossing.

Because the Feature is built in and cost no extra Penny.
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby stevej » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:30 am

G'day StevieG, David, Ulf and Frank,
Thanks for the responses.
You have confirmed what I did think was the situation regarding LC distant signals and LC signals, set for proceed on the track of the approaching train.
Provided that the LC protection is functioning.
UP and Down direction is also referred to here in regards to train direction to or from Sydney (Down trains running away from Sydney NSW).
UP trains having an even last digit and Down trains having an odd last digit.
How ever, this has become slightly confused with interstate freight train identification.
I have now rattled across the big bridge from Sweden to Denmark and discovered yet more different signalling in a You Tube video clip.
So, more googling required.
Steve.
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby Ulf Pålsson » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:33 pm

Hi again, Steve. I have now watched the Youtube video that you referred to. In the commentary field of the video, it is explained that this was a trial run with a new EMU type X74. The microphone was not located in the cab, since the film maker did not want the conversation between the driver and test staff to be recorded. That is why no beeps from the ATP system (called ‘ATC’ in Sweden) are heard.

At 26:52 the train passes a free-standing distant signal which I can see is indicating “expect proceed” (aspect ‘white flash’). But, when passing that signal, the train is tripped -- a brake intervention occurs. The train is then stopped about 100 m in rear of the following main signal (27:25), which indicates “proceed, expect proceed” (aspect ‘one green and white flash). We do not see the ATC indications in the cab, but I assume that a technical failure (a so called balise-transmission failure) occurred at the balise group of the free-standing distant signal, and that this triggered the brake intervention. When the train restarts (27:59), new and “fresh” ATC-information is received (28:20) from the balise group at the main signal (which is marked Eko 22, the entry signal to at station called Ekolsund), and that allows the train to proceed with normal speed.

About Danish signalling: This is something completely different, a system not really related to any of the systems of the neighbouring countries. You will get some help to understand it from http://www.lundsten.dk/dk_signaling/dksignal.html .
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby JRB » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:02 pm

The difference between DSB & SJ is demonstrated by the interface on the bridge. Both sides are controlled by the same model of Ebilok, but, because they are programmed with different signalling principles, attempts to make them interact failed and a
relay interface was resorted to.
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Re: Swedish Level Crossing distant signals

Unread postby stevej » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:47 am

G'day Ulf and JRB,
Ah, in regard to the video clip, I normally copy the You Tube clips at standard resolution, not high resolution.
Due to internet time and file size limitations at the library.
This would reduce the quality of the original footage.
This is probably why I cannot detect any indications in those signals when viewing the clip at home.
I had thought that the problem was probably an interface failure with the ATC system.
I must say that the train did stop very quickly due to the emergency application.
Thanks also for the Danish signalling link.
I am now rummaging around in there.
Yes, I did wonder at the ATC interface between Sweden and Denmark.
I presume that this is similar to that between Germany and Switzerland, in regard to signal and balise (magnet) position.
That is one monster bridge, which appears to curve for much of the bridge length.
Steve.
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