Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Signalling outside the UK (but including Northern Ireland), past, present and future

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:59 am

John Hinson wrote:It might be worth remembering that a subsidiary signal indicates the line is only clear as far as can be seen, so there is no real need to tell a driver which route he is taking. In fact, if all routes are equal distance and equal speed, it isn't necessary for a main arm either (think Skegness). And speed signalling isn't specific about left or right divergence, eiher.

John


correct , and there are many approaches to loops in ireland that are not specifically signalled, however this was less so in passenger lines , and over time CIE tended to oversignal, and any passenger line including loops gained specifc signals ( which was the point of re-designating the calling-on as a "loop home "
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:10 am

Mike Hodgson wrote:I'm confused, but maybe this is to be expected in Ireland. If I understand this correctly,
the miniature arm on a home signal might be a call-on reading to whichever road is set or
it might read only to the loop, and if so
that loop might be either to the left or the right of the main arm
the main arm might read only to the main or
it might lead to either road, whichever is set
the main arm might be locked by the starter

I don't like the idea of changing the meaning of existing signals, as drivers will have got used to whatever they had become accustomed to, and there must surely have been a risk that they would forget and apply an obsolete old interpretation inappropriately. I hope the crews understood what the signals meant, but talk of the odd accident suggests that I'm not the only one confused.



the miniature arm on a home signal might be a call-on reading to whichever road is set or


yes I believe on the former Midland lines , this was the practice as the main signal was interlocked with the starter

it might read only to the loop, and if so
that loop might be either to the left or the right of the main arm


NO ( and Yes) , this is mixing up different decades of signal practice. In pre-60s , the main read to both and are is a definition of subsidiary signal, the signal below read to the same " set " of lines as the main arm . The practice in ireland was that calling on arms was the same aspect as the arm above . but its clear in Claremorris, that the cabin diagram is clear on the correct priority, but the physical post has the dolly on the wrong side


that loop might be either to the left or the right of the main arm
the main arm might read only to the main or


Again post early 60s , seemingly as a result of a calling on arm incident, CIE removed the practice , and hence the calling on signal was resdeignated as a loop home , of course the loop might not have been on the correct side of the original calling on arm, This was not fixed ( in claremorris ) until the late 80s ( I have a picture thats shows the " new" conventional dolly ). its worth nothing that the westport road was actually on the correct aspect for the new redesigned loop home. However the sligo approach was a straight run to platform 1 and the calling on dolly was on the wrong side to indicate the " loop "

However I cannot confirm that the main arm from the sligo direction did actually did read to platform 1 , ( it was the obvious one as the line ran straight , but a simple straight line was not in itself a reason in ireland to signal it with an main arm )


What however confuses me still is that the cabin diagram in 1960 was the dolly to the right of the main post , even though outside the window the dolly was on the other side !, I cannot still resolve that abnormality
Last edited by madscientist on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:44 am

At Claremorris and Manulla Junction, main home cleared, road set for straight route. Subsidiary cleared, route set for subsidiary road (i.e not the straight road). The only unusual feature is that the position of the subsidiary signal does not correspond geographically - not the way I would have done it but I don't see the big deal as the subsidiary signal tells the driver he is not taking the main route. Basic route knowledge provides the remaining relevant information.


John , theres evidence that signals in CIEs early years did not read as simple as you state .


if you look at this http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304979 and zoom into the Northern approach ( i.e. westport and sligo approaches ) , and you read the cabin diagram , you would conclude that the main arm on the westport approach , i.e. #6 read to platform 1 line ( the nominal up platform ) , i.e. not the straight line. and the dolly , clearly shown to the right of the post , i.e. #8 reads to straight line, i.e. platform 2 (the nominal down platform ) . Trains from Westport habitually accessed the main platform 1 , ( i.e. the Dublin train ) as this was the most convenient platform for passengers

This is entirely consistent, with the southern approaches, which treated platform 2 ( the down platform ) as the " main line".

whats strange is outside the window, the aspect of both #6/8 and #2/4 are of the opposite sense physically.

whats futher interesting , is that when CIE replaced the post #6/8, with a conventional dolly , They reversed the physical arrangements, but left the lever sequence the same in the words #8 remained the signal to pull off, to access platform 1 , but this was now on a dolly signal , whereas #6 which was the calling-on arm that signalled entry into platform 2 ( the straight road ) , now became the main arm .

SO I think we can safely say that , the main arm on the approach from sligo into claremorris, in the 60s to early 80s did not read to the straight ahead line but instead read to the up line platform . ( which was through a crossover )

again whats bizarre, is the diagram is correct from a signal priority perspective, but does not follow the physical practice outside the window, which was that both previous " calling -on" arms , now designated loop homes, referred to loops actually physically on the other side of the dolly ( and in that they were consistent ) , even if , one of the loops , wasn't a loop at all, but was the straight road through the down platform

so ,in my conclusion , it was signalled according to " running practice" and not to physical layout

So to restate you comment, "At Claremorris and Manulla Junction, main home cleared, road set for straight route.", at claremoris , when arriving from westport, main arm off, line cleared to the commonly used line.( but necessarily not the straight road) , but this was a practice that came in after the calling-on arm system was changed ( and I wonder as to the date )

( ps Lads, is it not time to allow photos to be uploaded !!)
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:36 pm

Furthermore , while many web and Thompson machines were so fitted, there is no evidence that the claremorris starters were interlocked with the staff machines. The staff machines had no key release ( electrical release was not used as the dept of P & T maintained the ETS machines and lines in Ireland unlike the U.K. ) and as a result , the ets machine were largely hand generator powered to the very end of their existence , which precluded any form of electrical interlock . The normal approach followed was to have the release of the staff , also allow a key to be released , which could then be used to release the starter , this was common but not ubiquitous.


John I must apologise here , in that certainly by the 80s , after the Sligo line was closed , all the claremorris W&T ETS machines had starter key release ( actually advanced starter) mechanism added in common with elsewhere on CIE
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby Wilkinstown » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:12 pm

From a previous post from Madscientist

So I think we can safely say that , the main arm on the approach from sligo into claremorris, in the 60s to early 80s did not read to the straight ahead line but instead read to the up line platform . ( which was through a crossover)


But the up platform (with the main station buildings) was straight ahead for trains approaching Claremorris from Sligo ! No way did the main home from Sligo (or Westport) lead over a crossover rather than to the straight road.

Also I believe the subsidiary signals bracketed off the up main home signals at Claremorris or Manulla were never call on signals, but were simply subsidiary to the main home and read to the subsidiary route (i.e. the loop). The only difference from later practice is that the subsidiary did not convey directional information but simply indicated deviation from the main route.

The arrangement at some stations whereby the subsidiary home signals read to either main or loop was specific to stations on former MGWR double line sections which had been reduced to double track. This was never the arrangement at Claremorris or Manulla.

I am not familiar with an accident at Manulla, it may have occured and I did hear a reference to it elsewhere but the information is very vague.

There was an accident at nearby Balla in MGWR days whereby a driver approached the station faster than he should have done expecting to be routed into the goods loop. The main home was at danger, the main road was occupied and the road had not been set for the loop which would normally have been the case.

Just to add to the discussion there was a "call on" arm attached to the up inner home (just west of the up platform) - this had a yellow rather than a yellow face.
Wilkinstown
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:43 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:26 am

Wilkinstown wrote:From a previous post from Madscientist

So I think we can safely say that , the main arm on the approach from sligo into claremorris, in the 60s to early 80s did not read to the straight ahead line but instead read to the up line platform . ( which was through a crossover)


But the up platform (with the main station buildings) was straight ahead for trains approaching Claremorris from Sligo ! No way did the main home from Sligo (or Westport) lead over a crossover rather than to the straight road.

Also I believe the subsidiary signals bracketed off the up main home signals at Claremorris or Manulla were never call on signals, but were simply subsidiary to the main home and read to the subsidiary route (i.e. the loop). The only difference from later practice is that the subsidiary did not convey directional information but simply indicated deviation from the main route.

The arrangement at some stations whereby the subsidiary home signals read to either main or loop was specific to stations on former MGWR double line sections which had been reduced to double track. This was never the arrangement at Claremorris or Manulla.

I am not familiar with an accident at Manulla, it may have occured and I did hear a reference to it elsewhere but the information is very vague.

There was an accident at nearby Balla in MGWR days whereby a driver approached the station faster than he should have done expecting to be routed into the goods loop. The main home was at danger, the main road was occupied and the road had not been set for the loop which would normally have been the case.

Just to add to the discussion there was a "call on" arm attached to the up inner home (just west of the up platform) - this had a yellow rather than a yellow face.



Hi John

We agree that the Sligo approach main arm read to platform 1, which was also the straight ahead road. The dolly read to platform 2 , this interpretation agrees with the 1960s signal diagram in the odea collection , its the Westport line approach where we have confusion.

While I understand your comments. I would counter with three examples. If you examine for example Mostrim ( edgeworthtown ) the diagram is the on this web site . Here we had , rather unusally a bidirectional down main and loop but a unidirectional up loop. The. single main arm on the up approach would clearly have read to the up loop , i.e. Through a turnout. There is no loop home or callin on arm either

The second example , is as I stated previously , in claremorris, the signal box lever , that post Sligo line closure, now pulled off the loop dolly , ( i.e. The new signal ) , was the same lever that previously pulled off the main arm. I would expect that in any resignalling CIE would wish to minimise changes in the order of cabin levers , otherwise the interlocking would have to be modified. This suggests , very strongly , that the original main arm on the approach from Westport , read into the loop to platform 1 through a crossover.

I would advance a third example ( and potentially conclusive ) . The odea picture in the NLI , of the cabin diagram of claremorris , dated 1960 , shows on the diagram , a right hand junction dolly drawing on the Westport road , with the main signal arm clearly and unequivocally to the left of that dolly . No sane reading of that diagram would suggest the main arm read to the platform 2 straight ahead road. ( because the dolly diagram would have been meaningless ) ( the drawing shows the normal dolly priority for the Sligo road approach , i.e. Main to platform 1 and do platform 2)

The curious fact remains as to why CIE had these dolly signals where clearly , in any conventional reading of signsls , the mini dolly is on the wrong hand. ( the Sligo road approach ) . The only explanation was these were originally callin-on signals and the main arm as read to either road. , but by the 60s , were retasked as junction signals , even if we disagree as to the reading of the main arm . No other signal in claremorris is so confused.

My contention that that originally the main signal read to either road , is that quite close by, both approach roads to platform 1&2 had signals controlling their approaches. These inner homes ( actually there was in effect an outer, middle and inner home at claremorris) were made up of a plain signal ( with associated yellow calling on arm ) for the up road into platform 1 and a junction dolly sgnal , for the down road ,into platform 2/3 with the dolly reading to platform 3. ( claremorris being of course bidirectionally signaled )

Hence a driver reading the middle home ! , main arm as reading to either road , would very quickly and in plain sight of him , also see which inner homes were pulled off , clearly indicating , which road ( and platform ) was he being routed too


To summarise , I think we both agree , the original purpose of both the sleepers gnsls at the approach , was main arm read to both roads and calling -on used to draw forward as required. Clearly this practice ceased ( and as yet I can't determine exactly when ) on CIE and in common with certain other locations, the subsidiary arms we redesignated " loop homes " , the only issue between is is the reading of the main arm on one signal , your contention sinply cannt be squared with the 1960s cabin diagram

Still leaves the curious questions (a) why leave a very confused signal in place for so long ( i.e. Till the late 80s) and (b) why did the diagram in the 60s did fifer from what was physically outside

Cheers

Dave
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:24 am

John , I draw your attention to http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303496

This offers conclusive proof that the main arm indicated a route to the up road , platform 1

The picture , shows a good train shunting , in 1950 , zoom in and you see an interesting fact , the road to platform 1 has been cleared for a yet unseen train approaching from Westport , note the signal ( inner home ) is pulled off and in the distance the main arm of the Westport line is also pulled off, the route being through the crossover

QED John.

Note this picture predates the 50s creation of platform 3 But is post the 40s resignalling of claremorris , i.e.the cabin consolidation ( all that signalling remained in place till the late 80s , and substantially unchanged to 2005 )

I think we therefore can conclusively say that main arms read to the common runnng lines and not necessarily to the straight one
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby Wilkinstown » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:56 pm

Your contention appears to be that on the MGWR the lowering of the main home signal meant that the line was clear up to either the main or loop starters (or subsequent inner homes on either the main or loop) and the subsidiary signal was a "Call on" which also read to the main or loop roads but that the line ahead might be occupied.

Do you have any evidence or references to support your proposition ? I have never come across the arrangements you describe which seem bizarre and totally contrary to normal signalling practice.

I have plenty of evidence to support my understanding of post singling arrangements at crossing stations on former double track sections of the MGWR. These arrangements were introduced by the GSR.

My understanding is that bi-directional signalling at crossing stations was relatively uncommon in Ireland prior to the divergence of UK and Irish signalling practice post 1922, by which time the MGWR was effectively history. I therefore have great difficulty accepting that arrangements were as you describe without some confirming reference.
Wilkinstown
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:43 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Wed Mar 1, 2017 10:12 am

John

What I was debunking was your contention that the main arm of the signal on the post from the Westport approach to Claremorris read to the straight ahead line. It clearly read to the crossover loop and there is pictorial evidence, as I referred. Clearly the line was clear into the next block , as otherwise either a calling on process was required or a rule 39 style checking of train would be needed ( in which case the main arm would be "on "


That's all I can prove at this point. But the odea picture proved that the station diagram ( odea 1960 ) in the cabin is correct and the dolly read to the straight road into platform 2

Note that while the statutory position of the board of trade ceased in 1922. The GSR and subsequently CIE voluntarily adopted the RCH rules and the MOT " blue book" on practice and construction ( as was evidenced in the buttevant accident report in 1980 ). In certain cases signalling rules differed ( as in ground disks for example ) but in general not in any material way until the introduction of CTC. ( CIE being influenced by some American practices ) CIE was the last user of the RCH rule book after BR re-wrote their own. It's could be contended , to say actually that uk practice diverged from CIE /GSR /pre BR nationalisation

In relation to the MOT rules for passagner railways. Junction signals should rank in height based on " importance " that's the word used , not physical layout. ( even though most of the time the two coincided )

WhAt I would contend therefore ( based on pictorial evidence ) and interpolating over time, is that in the midland days the northern junction at Claremorris was fitted with a single arm for each road and a calling on arm below. Whether during the midland , early GSR days the main arm read to both roads , I cannot say , but it seems logical based on the inner homes existing as they did. The signal posts were exact copies of the " true" calling on arm ( inner home ) so that's a logical conclusion.

What's clear based on pictorial evidence is that by the 60s the practice was to treat this signal as a junction dolly and the lower signal was assigned to the " less important " route as per MOT rules.

Regards

Dave
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby Wilkinstown » Wed Mar 1, 2017 10:06 pm

I am persuaded that up trains from Westport to platform 1 at Claremorris travelled on the authority of No 6 signal and that this lever originally operated the main up home signal arm from Westport with No 8 operating the subsidiary arm ! Latterly No 6 worked the subsidiary arm with No 8 working the main home, an arrangement which better reflected the physical track layout.

I can only assume that the original arrangement was to maintain symmetry between the Sligo and Westport lines and/or between up and down trains. The crossover leading from the up Westport line to platform 1 wasn't particularly sharp and was in any event restricted to 30 mph so I suppose the arrangement was acceptable if somewhat strange.

At Edgeworthstown (despite the diagram) the up main home read along the straight road as did the down main home. Incidentally it was the up line at Edgeworthstown that was bi-directional, not the down line.

I don't believe that the subsidiary homes at Claremorris were "call on" signals and most particularly don't accept that the main home signals at Claremorris read to anywhere other than the (designated) main routes.
Wilkinstown
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:43 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby madscientist » Fri Mar 3, 2017 5:17 pm

I am persuaded that up trains from Westport to platform 1 at Claremorris travelled on the authority of No 6 signal and that this lever originally operated the main up home signal arm from Westport with No 8 operating the subsidiary arm ! Latterly No 6 worked the subsidiary arm with No 8 working the main home, an arrangement which better reflected the physical track layout.


hurrah for consensus ! :D

I don't believe that the subsidiary homes at Claremorris were "call on" signals and most particularly don't accept that the main home signals at Claremorris read to anywhere other than the (designated) main routes.


I suspect they were originally calling -on , but were changed to junction signals by the GSR when claremorris was resignalled in the 40s and the track was modified in 1951. The station diagram in the cabin , rather unusually was never changed by CIE, from the GSR original,that was created when the GSR performed the modifications. Elsewhere CIE typically redid the diagram ( in the more modern angular form ) especially after typical major track re-work , but perhaps because of the extensive track circuiting ( or lazy S&T) claremorris was repeatedly patched with white paper and tippex , and un-patched ( incorrectly I might add ) after the box was closed for the 2012 centenary celebrations . ( where Enda Kenny, then PM was photographed , in a non functional box !!) . Hence the Odea 1960 photograph of the diagram , can be regarded as the " intention " of the S&T for claremorris . I have not seen any signals elsewhere, where such "mini dollies " were originally as installed regarded as junction signals in the standard form. I beleive that the midland , uniquely had a process of using calling on arms that was not to be found on the G&SWR and its successors

Now , for a further debate
At Edgeworthstown (despite the diagram) the up main home read along the straight road as did the down main home. Incidentally it was the up line at Edgeworthstown that was bi-directional, not the down line.


Please provide some documentary proof of this contention

I would contend otherwise based on this reading of the diagram

(a) the down line had no bidirectional starter , hence if as you say the UP home read to the straight ahead , just where was the section ( starter ) signal for the next block !!!.

(b) given the up home is before the loop point , a driver , given there is no loop signal evident on the diagram, would now be forced to pass the home at red to enter the loop, thats a a complete no-no

(c) The down line is single direction , hence no up train would access it , hence the up home , reads to the " important " line as per MoT Blue book requirements , that is clearly the loop line.

( the arrangement is similar to the one in Ennis . where the straight road is a bidirectional line and the loop is one direction , here the single arm home signal reads to the straight road as you would expect. with no dolly to allow wrong line running into the loop )


Again , if you read the MoT blue book on signalling requirements for passenger lines, it mentions that the height of semaphores relative to one another in a junction signal , is related to the relative " "importance" ( Mot Term) , and not to any physical layout. CIE followed this book , and I think it applies when reading signals such as EWT up home and as shown in Claremorris

Again by comparison , if you look at the 1960 odea photograph of the North Box at Ennis, ( which had a unidirectional loop ) , you will see that in comparison with the later CIE diagram of the much reduced station layout, that just like what happened in claremorris, the original down junction, main arm , read to the loop with the dolly showing straight ahead, whereas in the later CIE diagram, the opposite was the case, ( as was subsequently done in claremorris) and the dolly " importance" was changed to reflect the straight ahead etc in the conventional manner

SO the conclusion we can arrive at is that pre-90s , CIE had many junction signals that read to the " importance " of the line and nots its physical orientation and that in many ( most ) cases in later revisions , the dolly priority was changed to reflect physical layout rather then " importance " .

It would be interesting to get comment from English practice , since the same MoT blue book applied

cheers

Dave
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby Wilkinstown » Fri Mar 3, 2017 11:14 pm

Dave,

Suggest you look at the diagram on the SRS website showing the pre-colour light signalling arrangements. The up and down lines are clearly marked. The up line is bi-directionally signalled not the down line - https://signalbox.org/overseas/ireland/ ... hstown.htm

Please see http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307334 - I mistakenly assumed this photograph showed the up home signal at Edgeworthstown and on this basis I thought the up home was reading along the straight road - on reflection this photograph appears to show the down home. It appears that at this time both the up and down lines at Edgeworthstown were uni-directional. So yes you are correct, the up home did lead to the up loop via a left hand turnout. I am not sure what this proves - where else would it lead in the absense of bi-directional signalling on the down line ?

As for Ennis North the arrangement of the down homes were indeed similar to the up homes from Westport at Claremorris in that the main home signal reads to the left despite the "straight" road being to the right. Perhaps when bi-directional running was introduced by GSR/CIE the practice was for the subsidiary home to read to the "wrong line" irrespective of the geometry of the layout (i.e. the main signal continued to read to the line which would normally have applied at a conventional two road uni-directional crossing station).
Last edited by Wilkinstown on Sun Mar 5, 2017 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wilkinstown
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:43 pm

Unread postby madscientist » Sat Mar 4, 2017 8:19 pm

Wilkinstown wrote:Please see http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307334 - I mistakenly assumed this photograph showed the up home signal at Edgeworthstown and on this basis I thought the up home was reading along the straight road - on reflection this photograph appears to show the down home. It appears that at this time both the up and down lines at Edgeworthstown were uni-directional. So yes you are correct, the up home did lead to the up loop via a left hand turnout. I am not sure what this proves - where else would it lead in the absense of bi-directional signalling on the down line ?


thanks , John, I , as i said , thought your argument in EWT was wrong , and I am happy to accept it was based on the wrong signal . all it proves is that " importance " to the early GSR/CIE was more correctly interpreted then merely the straight through route

As for Ennis North the arrangement of the down homes were indeed similar to the up homes from Westport at Claremorris in that the main home signal reads to the left despite the "straight" road being to the right. Perhaps when bi-directional running was introduced by GSR/CIE the practice was for the subsidiary home to read to the "wrong line" irrespective of the geometry of the layout (i.e. the route which would normally have applied at a conventional two road uni-directional crossing station).


There is evidence that the "importance " of the road was the key metric for relevant height of the dolly , right up till the late 80s and I would contend had nothing to do with bi-directional running. It seems a key decision , was made to change the dolly relevance to relate to physical layout , sometime in the late 80s and co-incided with a general review of semaphores that CIE undertook at that time, often adding advanced starters , and key interlocked starting signals etc . As the 80s progressed and into the 90s and with the expansion of CTC, CIE gradually departed from the Mot Blue book ( which itself became redundant )

Anyway I think we are all agreeing with each other now !!! :D . its been a great discussion

dave
madscientist
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Strange " mini dollies " at Claremorris pre 80s

Unread postby AndyB » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:43 am

On the subject of starter signal keys, they may not have been available on the Athenry and Sligo lines at Claremorris, because the short section to Tuam BFS and the normal section to Kiltimagh used large ETS, which I suspect never had keys fitted. The Up advanced starters are all in the right sequence (platform starters 47-50, advanced 51 and 52), and while the Down advanced starters (16/17) aren't - platform signals 30, 42 and 46 are effectively a second set of inner homes and 41 and 45 the starting signals (no route indication for the Sligo line and no evidence of Tippex) - the signals approaching from Kiltimagh and Balla are also at the left hand of the frame, so I wouldn't want to bet on the advanced starters being post-1960.

Interesting number of signals controlled by the lie of the points, such as No. 50.
AndyB
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:08 pm

Previous

Return to Signalling - overseas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest