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Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS Co.?

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:56 pm
by El Porteño
Dear friends, I spent a few days visiting this abandoned signal box in Basavilbaso Junction, Entre Rios, (F.C.E.R.) This was a british railway investment till 1948. This signal box was installed in 1922 beacuse the junction was re-signallinged, as the main line became Buenos Aires-Zarate-Entre Ríos (via Ferry boats) Basabilvaso - Concordia - Monte Caseros - Posadas, instead of Paraná - Basavilbaso - Concepción del Uruguay.
I can´t found any maker´s mark , but there are some elements that make me suppose that was made by The Railway Signal Co. Ltd.
As you can see in the photos, the pulleys and the arm signal spectacles are RS Co. but I don´t think the rollers and point bars are...
What do you think?
I´ll apreciate your comments!
Best Regards, Pablo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/44833183@ ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44833183@ ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44833183@ ... ed-public/

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:59 pm
by El Porteño

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:52 pm
by Chris Osment


If you look at the key lock on the front of lever 2 in the third link listed above, it seems to read 'The Railway Signal C......' on the front. Not that that proves the rest of the frame was RSC, but maybe a clue?

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:10 pm
by El Porteño
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44833183@ ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44833183@ ... ed-public/

Many thanks Chris! Yes, you´re right!! I saw that! We used to see in Argentina a lot of equipment from RS Co. but this is not usual, I mean, for example, the lever plate, always it is not like this frame, we are going well!!! je!

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:39 pm
by El Porteño

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:05 pm
by El Porteño
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44833183@ ... ed-public/

This is an common example of a R S Co. frame. levers and lever plates

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:26 pm
by scarpa
What an incredible picture gallery. The signalbox with the British Power lever frame and photos of B.P. equipment must be at least 90 years old .Thankyou El Porteno for sharing with us!

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:04 pm
by John Hinson
El Porteño wrote:I can´t found any maker´s mark , but there are some elements that make me suppose that was made by The Railway Signal Co. Ltd.
As you can see in the photos, the pulleys and the arm signal spectacles are RS Co. but I don´t think the rollers and point bars are...
What do you think?

Hi Pablo,

If I was asked to identify the frame from the pictures, I would have instantly said Railway Signal Company. What looks wrong is the plates on the levers, which look like Saxby & Farmer ones.

There are a few possible explanations - Saxby & Farmer could have been asked to make a frame that "looks like that" but it seems unlikely they would make such a perfect copy. But this used to sometimes happen in the UK, particularly if one manufacturer was busy with a large contract and sub-contracted the work rather than lose the whole contract.

The other, perhaps more likely, explanation could be that Saxby & Farmer made some alterations to the original signalling at a later date and fitted their own types of plates at that time.

Best regards,

John

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:11 pm
by scarpa
There was a Saxby and Farmer frame shown not sure if it was dimantled

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:17 pm
by Mike Hodgson
Thank you for posting those magnificent photos Pablo. Good to see large lever frames with none of the handles cut down as is usually the case in the UK. Another thing reminiscent of our historic practice can be seen in some of the photos, namely that distant levers are still green.

The boxes lack block shelves. Would they have had some form of wall-mounted block instruments, as was common with our older 2-position blocks? I suppose you would have photographed them if still present, so I take it they were either been recovered when the boxes were abandoned or perhaps they were located in the stations and worked by station master. Would these also have been from British contractor, and do you know whether any survive?

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:27 am
by El Porteño
scarpa wrote:What an incredible picture gallery. The signalbox with the British Power lever frame and photos of B.P. equipment must be at least 90 years old .Thankyou El Porteno for sharing with us!


Thanks a lot Scarpa! this incredible frame was installed in 1915, very High Tech in those years!! Take a look!
Retiro Terminus Station, ex Central Argentine Railway Buenos Aires Terminal. "The British Power Railway Signal Co. Ltd. (BPRSCo.) Power Frame (234 slide levers)"
Listen the "knack sound" when the levers come back itself to “On position”..

You can see two videos posted at: "signalboxes and Signalling Group" on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/168118503304604/videos/

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:09 am
by El Porteño
Mike Hodgson wrote:Thank you for posting those magnificent photos Pablo. Good to see large lever frames with none of the handles cut down as is usually the case in the UK. Another thing reminiscent of our historic practice can be seen in some of the photos, namely that distant levers are still green.

The boxes lack block shelves. Would they have had some form of wall-mounted block instruments, as was common with our older 2-position blocks? I suppose you would have photographed them if still present, so I take it they were either been recovered when the boxes were abandoned or perhaps they were located in the stations and worked by station master. Would these also have been from British contractor, and do you know whether any survive?


Dear Mike, thanks a lot for your words, I enjoy very much recording and posting these elements, survivors of a golden era of British practice and railway investments in Argentina. You must know that the most percentage of more than 40.000 km. of tracks in my country were single lines, a large numbers of Staff block instruments were the main actors of the traffic, principle provider: The Railway Signal Co.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1
There were many other examples: This particular one used by the Entre Rios Railway Co. (F.C.E.R.) manufactured by Tyer & Co. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:31 am
by El Porteño
John Hinson wrote:
El Porteño wrote:I can´t found any maker´s mark , but there are some elements that make me suppose that was made by The Railway Signal Co. Ltd.
As you can see in the photos, the pulleys and the arm signal spectacles are RS Co. but I don´t think the rollers and point bars are...
What do you think?

Hi Pablo,

If I was asked to identify the frame from the pictures, I would have instantly said Railway Signal Company. What looks wrong is the plates on the levers, which look like Saxby & Farmer ones.

There are a few possible explanations - Saxby & Farmer could have been asked to make a frame that "looks like that" but it seems unlikely they would make such a perfect copy. But this used to sometimes happen in the UK, particularly if one manufacturer was busy with a large contract and sub-contracted the work rather than lose the whole contract.

The other, perhaps more likely, explanation could be that Saxby & Farmer made some alterations to the original signalling at a later date and fitted their own types of plates at that time.

Best regards,

John

Thanks a lot John, I appreciate that you are always giving your right opinion!!
The Entre Rios Railway Co. bought and joint many standard gauge railway different companies wich became in 1948 the Urquiza National Railway. This particular signal box was built ein 1921, I suppose that the Signalling department intended to keep the aspect of lever plates like the S&F style, as the rest of the main signal boxes along the line. I didn´t have the chance (the door was locked) to enter to the signal box's basement, I gotta go again!! I have the perfect excuse....ja!
Many thanks! I´m very glad to keep this conversations about signalling, it is very nice to practice my english, you are very kind people, best regards, Pablo.

Re: Lever frame in Basavilbaso (FCER): could be made by RS C

Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:23 am
by El Porteño
A friend called Shawn Sanders suggest that the frame was made by R.S. Co."with the sprung catches, rather than weighted. I, too, would be very interested to see the apparatus in the locking room." And he posted a wonderful document:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1