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Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

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Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:27 pm

my colleague Pete has made a fotopic website of the works on the box so far and the start of the works at Matlock

these can be viewed at ; http://photosbyp.fotopic.net/c1917258_73.html

dom :shock:
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby Keith » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:21 pm

I get the impression you do most of the work while he takes the photographs... :wink:

You've certainly put in a lot of effort there. I'll need to come and see some time. 8)
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:38 pm

its also conversely the same on our s n t website, i take the pics n pete,dave,john etc do all the work!!!!!

thanks boss :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby petwall » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:03 am

The latest pictures of the signal work at Matlock can be seen here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peakrailprogress/

Regards Pete
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby Mike Stone » Thu May 5, 2011 9:06 pm

If I read the plan correctly NR will require the Peak Rail divisible staff to run round, but if both the NR token and the divisible staff have to be present to release the existing GF to stop NR attempting to use it when Peak Rail are running, what happens if NR need to run round when Peak Rail is shut?
;
I'm au fait with a divisible staff, but I assume it is acceptable for the driver of the first arrival to to split it and leave half for the engine which brought in the firsrt train?
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Fri May 6, 2011 8:37 pm

the divisible staff is actually NR`s not PR`s as it applies to their side of the fence, the only premise being that before a driver off us passes onto their metals and past NR`s sign board they must have in their possession the correct portion /portions of the staff

at night when PR is shut the staff is maintained NR`s side of the fence in their enclosure.

the ground frame relating to the staff /points relating to the staff are at the top of the loop and do not require the NR token as that only operates the far station end points leading to their single line.

At present the point is fpl bolted in,as we do not plan to use the points at all,it may be that they maintain the fpl bolted in and padlocked,without need for a ground frame,currently NR are happy to have the points worked by handlever with the fpl removed by hand as its so rare the point is ever used,having been that way now for two years,that would then allow the staff to become nothing more complex than two bits of labelled wood with a welded ring and padlock key upon it,much easier..

hope taht helps boss
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby pbinnersley » Thu May 12, 2011 9:36 pm

Thanks for the photos and the diagram.

The diagram for riverside (http://www.flickr.com/photos/peakrailprogress/5574215811/in/photostream) shows signals Nos 6 & 10 at the north end of Riverside station as normally off.

No 6 is the down loop startiing signal. No 10 is the top signal on the single post up home signal with No.11 (main or subsiduary arm?) below and a seperate disc No.12 at its base.

My reading of this is that No.10 would signal trains into Riverside platform, but this would prevent 6 & 10 being off simultaneously.

Can somebody please enlighten me.

Thanks,

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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby Ex-BR_S&T_Tech » Sat May 14, 2011 9:14 am

It must surely be that 10 & 11 have been transposed on the diagram.

I wonder why 3 Points has an FPL on it when there does not appear to be any possible passenger moves over it and shouldn't there be some conditional locking there as well - 1 Locks Normal (15 w 3 Normal). Just a thought.
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby John Hinson » Sat May 14, 2011 9:35 am

Ex-BR_S&T_Tech wrote:It must surely be that 10 & 11 have been transposed on the diagram.

I wonder why 3 Points has an FPL on it when there does not appear to be any possible passenger moves over it and shouldn't there be some conditional locking there as well - 1 Locks Normal (15 w 3 Normal). Just a thought.


I agree they are probably transposed (although perhaps 5 & 6 are the ones that are wrong?), but I doubt they will actually stand normally off. I notice an unspecified "King lever" - if that is a closing lever I would expect it to allow opposing signals to be cleared when the box is closed. That diagram is very questionable - I can see a couple of sets of points where opposite ends stand opposite ways - a recipe for disaster if installed in that manner and it would result in a repeat of an incident on the Ballater branch after singling. The frame seems to be numbered backwards, there's a firemans call plunger plus a telephone shown at one signal and the FCP plate on the signal is shown back-to-front.

I think that drawing is better seen as a general guide to what is intended than an accurate representation of what is to come. Even so, I don't feel it is a very good representation of "preserved" signalling.

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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Sat May 14, 2011 10:31 am

pbinnersley wrote:
No 6 is the down loop startiing signal. No 10 is the top signal on the single post up home signal with No.11 (main or subsiduary arm?) below and a seperate disc No.12 at its base.


If you look at the photo after the diagram in the link, it shows the signal under construction and still without arms and the disc is bagged at its foot; the top signal has a larger spectacle plate, so that suggests that the lower one will get a subsidiary arm. Presumably reading to No 4 signal which would be cleared for a movement to Matlock platform.

The only thing you can reasonably do with the box closed is to run a unit between Darley Dale and Riverside. So I agree with the DI's interpretation that the wrong starter is shown as normally off, and they would be locked that way by the king lever, and of course 8 points would also be set for the platform - I would have expected that to be the normal lie of those points. You need the box manned to run round a train at Riverside. You also need it manned if running through to the platform, in order to exchange the staff for the divisible staff and to work 16.
Last edited by Mike Hodgson on Sat May 14, 2011 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Sat May 14, 2011 10:54 am

theres a couple of reasons why 3 has an fpl though no passenger moves over it

1. when put in the points were to be part of the main running line, one train operator while work was ongoing complained that they didnt like end on connections,so we changed to plan B and thus headshunt already fitted out for passenger running already had an fpl on it and became obsolete.

that said

2. its always been a policy of this line to put facing locks on points leading around passenger moves,just how it was done with the first engineers who did the railway,so its no hardship to ensure points are locked before a loco from the headshunt tries to make a move,weve enough spares,wed all feel a lot more comfortable too with it being connected to a complex layout and the fact theyre ex sidings points on a tight layout where the points have been run one way for several years and usually develop that kick towards one side and not to the other.


quite a few of the arms are on,.except the one from NR which weve not put the arm on just yet,till theyre sign goes up..
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Sat May 14, 2011 11:00 am

also forgot, 10 is towards matlock, 11 will be towards platform at riverside,12 for shunting onto riverside if train terminates there.

you can either

1,top n tail,drop loco off back at riverside.
2.run round at riverside if terminating there
3.do the model railway classic, drop off top n tail loco ,drop original round and back again,so you keep youre original loco on the front,takes time,and may not be used, the layout is best suitable for what we needed and what we could do with the land available

the arm on 11 shown as a sub,will be altered to a main apsect in the coming weeks,,it would have been nice to put a bracket in there but the land adjacent to the site is developers land earmarked for a housing estate, theres supposed to be a 10 foot high wall alongside the cabin,which would aid security a bit if theres houses up there instead of waste land, thus the signal going just on the bridge end to get the arms off the developers land, dont want them turning around in a years time saying your signal juts over our land please move it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Sat May 14, 2011 11:10 am

to answer the backwards frame numbering, the reason for that is that after planning to put the box in on the platform side where the space was to be available,doing the locking table,building a working model etc as drawings can be misread so you want to check it actually works etcetera-,(the train operating company that caused problems left us with the option B at the last minute)--to move everything around again,so the box now ended up on the other side of the line,thus facing backwards, so the frame ends up backwards too,thus 1 is now to the right instead of the left off the frame, and 12 to the left instead off right,without going through the process of starting the locking sketch all over again from scratch to suit it as work on the ground had already begun, we lived with the easy option of altering the rodding run so it crosses in the bed timber outside,and live with the frame working levers at the opposite end of the layout to those of the levers.

not the first time ive seen it done elsewhere either, oddly enough that was due to a problem at the last minute too.

hope that answers some of the questions,will check the drawing again for your notes and comments.

the route normally is for trains to run into the loop line towards matlock, the signals coming in and out the loop being normally off,the king lever 9 disengaging the opposing locking on them.
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Sat May 14, 2011 11:20 am

i stand corrected sir!, i do need to alter the showing of 3 point to show it lie-ing on the drawing as riverside platform to headshunt bufferstop,rather than the way its shown now from loop to buffer stop,it should be opposite of 15/16 points to the NR connection so theyre always flank protected -- :oops: i will correct it thus and have an update posted to the site soon, thanks for spotting that one!.

as you say its only a basic drawing,it was done for to show siggies,NR etc what our layout would look like,not the usual red/green/back drawing that weve also got besides,would be nice to have it drawn up in a good font like the old LMS or MR drawings,might ask a colleague to have a look at that!!!!

thanks gents!!!!
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Re: Matlock n Ex-Luffenham signalbox

Unread postby kestreleyes » Sat May 14, 2011 11:41 am

Have ammended the drawing gents,itl be uploaded soon;

headshunt points set correctly now,note the normal lie of 15/16 is to the headshunt,as the other end acts as a trap from NR as they can shunt upto the headshunt with our train in section between darley dale and the loop at riverside,we normally will collect the staff for the forward section to matlock prior to riverside opening to ensure there is nothing in front before we open for the day,else wel have to run round at riverside, it may transpire that you could turn up and NR might not have informed you of something on the matlock section,say an emergency or a breakdown or engineering overrun,even a point fault on their ground frame points so a team of theirs is working on them and has the staff for their protection,it could happen,they could forget to tell us.

the line from riverside platform to the headshunt is set that way to in case the water tank we use is stabled there attached to the brake,normally riverside platform will not be used unless we know were terminating there,eg NR would have to let us know prior to the event, else the train could end up coming into the loop and finsing its way blocked,requiring to set back, the above paragraph explains what should occur normally!!!

on a normal day,the siggie may well come down on the train to riverside,thus they can drop down to the box,open up,return the signals and king lever,reset the road and issue the staff for the forward section, saving a few hundred yards walk,especially if its pouring rain...,thankfully now there is good road access direct to the box so its more likely the siggie will turn up at matlock,collect the staff then goto riverside straight away ready to open up when the train arrives.


if there are santas on then we normally top and tail permanently so as to speed things up, in this case riverside wont be open,the staffs being combined,at such time the points 15/16 would be set towards matlock after weve obtained the staff and thus permission to do this,then we would run as such through the up loop all day,the engineer would reset the traps at the days start and end to save the crews doing this as theyl arrive straight into riverside then.

ive also corrected the lie of 10/11, i should have spotted id put the left route on the next one down the post instead the top,thus the main route is shown into the loop straight up,the next left route being to the platform, ive added a note to explain normally off better.

let me know any more thoughts please,always welcomed

dom
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