Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Signalling on heritage railways

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Jun 6, 2016 2:50 pm

I think to find the answer to the question you need to ask the Severn Valley Railway because they have added these signals since BR days. At that time there was simply a single fixed distant approaching Bewdley from each route. And, of course, the Back Road was a token section in those days. Quite different to how it is now.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6798
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Tue Jun 7, 2016 5:02 am

The original question that has kicked off this stage of the discussion was related to distants shown in the 1932 diagram.
Last edited by guard_jamie on Tue Jun 7, 2016 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
doing nothing in particular but doing it very well
User avatar
guard_jamie
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Feb 3, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Jun 7, 2016 7:15 am

guard_jamie wrote:The original question that has kicked off this stage of the discussion was related to distants shown (shown?) in the 1932 diagram.

Good point (although I read it as about the height of the signal without distant arms). I haven't seen a 1932 diagram for either box but the distant arrangements by the 1960s were as I described above.

In early days there would almost certainly have been working distants but not necessarily any more than later existed - they could have been slotted between the boxes. It is impossible to tell the original arrangements from the numbering of the existing lever frames as neither is original to the boxes but with both having been renewed by 1932 it is fair to assume they were fixed signals by then.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6798
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Tue Jun 7, 2016 7:55 am

My original query was about the height of the Bracket signal at Bewdley South, the second query was when the (fixed) distants present on the 1932 diagram were removed as it was known to have occurred pre-preservation.

Mine and Peter's later comments probably muddied the waters as we were referring to the post-preservation situation.

I hazard that the 1932 diagram distants were removed in 1955 when other signalling alterations took place around the station, but without photographic evidence it is an educated guess, no more.
doing nothing in particular but doing it very well
User avatar
guard_jamie
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Feb 3, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby Danny252 » Tue Jun 7, 2016 8:36 am

guard_jamie wrote:but without photographic evidence


Your wish is my command!

An aerial photograph showing the station, dated 25 August 1952, is available at: http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw046201

If you register a free account on the site, you are able to zoom in far enough to see detail on the signals (the free download only gives a low resolution version, sadly!). I am unable to see any evidence of a distant arm on BS5; BS6/7 is difficult to see due to background trees; BN 16/17 (post-1955 numbering, if it matters) also show no evidence of distant arms.

An eagle eyed person among you may be able to work out if any arms are under BS6/7 on this photo (7 Oct 1959): http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/pho ... 9_RJS_SV_1

Definitely gone by c1961 (link) or April 1962 (link).
Danny252
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:39 pm
Location: As close to the levers as they'll let me be

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Tue Jun 7, 2016 9:09 am

I would agree that the 1952 photograph suggests (insufficient resolution to confirm) the distants had been removed by then. So they were removed in the 20yr period 1932-52...
doing nothing in particular but doing it very well
User avatar
guard_jamie
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Feb 3, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby Danny252 » Tue Jun 7, 2016 2:09 pm

Having looked at a few photos of BN 16/17, it doesn't look like the home arms were high up enough to have ever had distant arms underneath (see link, and compare to the obviously removed distant arms at South). I would also be surprised if a wood post signal with "wasp-tail" arms appeared in 1955 (the other 1955 signals all appear to be steel), implying that BN 16/17 was renewed without distants pre-WW2 (these are shown as existing on the 1932 BS diagram).
Danny252
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:39 pm
Location: As close to the levers as they'll let me be

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Jun 7, 2016 4:06 pm

Is there a link to this 1932 diagram that everybody else seems to know about but me?

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6798
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby Danny252 » Tue Jun 7, 2016 7:36 pm

It's one of the diagrams the SRS have published: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gws/S2646.htm
Danny252
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:39 pm
Location: As close to the levers as they'll let me be

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby John Hinson » Wed Jun 8, 2016 3:26 am

Danny252 wrote:It's one of the diagrams the SRS have published: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gws/S2646.htm

Ta.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6798
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby borgrail » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:04 am

Hi,
I've followed this thread with interest as I had to research the signals at Bewdley for a model set in the 1960s. The layout is still under construction but should be appearing on the exhibition circuit fairly soon, I understand (probably next year). It's in 00 and as close to scale length etc as the builders can make it. I managed to locate enough photographic evidence on the web and my own collection of all the signals for that period.

The one thing that still nags me is that I never managed to get a definitive evidence of the tubular post colour other than that for the Gallows signal, which must have been white when installed and never re-painted (Thereis a photo out there showing it to be white in BR days). Of course now they all white but that's no guarantee of whether they stayed white or got repainted aluminium.
Stephen Freeman
borgrail
Crossing box
Crossing box
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:01 am
Location: Cheshire

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:41 am

One would assume (dangerous I know) that if the gallows was white a standard policy would have been pursued by the local S&T and white used on other elements of the 1955 resignalling.
doing nothing in particular but doing it very well
User avatar
guard_jamie
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Feb 3, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby Danny252 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:44 am

There are quite a number of colour photos of Bewdley in the 1970s, only months after BR services ceased in some cases, all of which show the tubular posts as white (or rusted white!).

These show most of the signals in the immediate station area:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/5863813287/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/8367589255/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/5702776556/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/8392724815/
Danny252
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:39 pm
Location: As close to the levers as they'll let me be

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:49 am

Beg pardon, but the first of the above shows a tubular post signal in silver! The white-post signals in that picture are wooden.

Some were certainly white, but these might have been repainted under LMR ownership.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6798
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:51 am

I would agree with John's assessment that the Back Road to Tenbury/Bridgnorth bracket is silver in the first shot, and fresh white in the second. The bracket at the other end of the Back Road looks fresh too, whilst Bewdley South's Up Main homes are definitely a very rusted white.

It is odd to think that the Bewdley triangle and the line to Alveley suffered the ignominy of LMR control.
doing nothing in particular but doing it very well
User avatar
guard_jamie
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Feb 3, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Herefordshire

PreviousNext

Return to Signalling - heritage railways

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest