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Bewdley South Bracket Signal

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Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:41 am

I am currently planning a representation of this signal on a model railway that I am building. The signal is pre-preservation although it has had distant signals added in preservation days.

I am trying to discover its height. It underwent significant refurbishment in 2006 which included the replacement of the main post. SVR Signalling Dept. information reveals that the replacement post is 37' in length - but how much of that would be in the ground upon installation, and therefore what would the out of ground height of the signal be?
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby MRFS » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:16 pm

Are you sure it's pre-preservation? I seem to remember an SVR Mag about its replacement which may give useful hints.
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby DFS » Wed Oct 1, 2014 4:37 pm

guard_jamie wrote:I am currently planning a representation of this signal on a model railway that I am building. The signal is pre-preservation although it has had distant signals added in preservation days.

I am trying to discover its height. It underwent significant refurbishment in 2006 which included the replacement of the main post. SVR Signalling Dept. information reveals that the replacement post is 37' in length - but how much of that would be in the ground upon installation, and therefore what would the out of ground height of the signal be?


Prior to refurbishment the post was certainly pre-preservation. It had been godfathered (twice!) even before the SVR took it over in order to keep it in service!

I can't remember off the top of my head exactly how much of the 2006 replacement post is in the ground, however I think that it is in the region of 5' to 6'. If I remember I'll check with colleagues at the weekend.

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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby JRB » Sat Oct 4, 2014 9:41 pm

Knowing the size of the arms and allowing for perspective, a suitable photograph will give a good idea.
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby davidwoodcock » Sun Oct 5, 2014 8:40 am

Counting the number of rungs on the signal ladder and comparing that at against a drawing is also a useful check, remembering, of course, that the ladder isn't mounted vertically and may, just, have been replaced by another company's ladder during the preservation era (both the width and rise of signalling ladders varied more than you might imagine).
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Mon Oct 6, 2014 10:49 am

Thank you all for your suggestions.
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby DFS » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:58 pm

DFS wrote:
guard_jamie wrote:I am currently planning a representation of this signal on a model railway that I am building. The signal is pre-preservation although it has had distant signals added in preservation days.

I am trying to discover its height. It underwent significant refurbishment in 2006 which included the replacement of the main post. SVR Signalling Dept. information reveals that the replacement post is 37' in length - but how much of that would be in the ground upon installation, and therefore what would the out of ground height of the signal be?


Prior to refurbishment the post was certainly pre-preservation. It had been godfathered (twice!) even before the SVR took it over in order to keep it in service!

I can't remember off the top of my head exactly how much of the 2006 replacement post is in the ground, however I think that it is in the region of 5' to 6'. If I remember I'll check with colleagues at the weekend.

David

After a bit of a delay I've spoken with my colleagues and confirmed that about 5' to 6' of the base of the post is buried. The ground in the area has sandstone not too far below the surface with the result that the lowest part of the post is effectively set in a "socket" cut in to the underlying sandstone.

This is a picture of the full length of the post while being painted:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66345456@N04/15415069539/
and this shows it dressed with some the ironwork and fittings, although not showing quite the full length of the post.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66345456@N04/15415583458/in/photostream/

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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:39 am

Thank you DFS, that's great. That gives me a height of 31-32' - which will look quite impressive in 16mm scale...
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby borgrail » Tue May 10, 2016 1:40 pm

Hi,
I was just wondering if anybody knew when the fixed distants shown on the 1932 diagram were removed from the Bewdley South wooden bracket signals, pre 1960 or post? I know they had gone by the time SVR took over.
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Thu Jun 2, 2016 8:27 am

I would hazard a guess at 1955 when I know signalling alterations were carried out at the north of the station, resulting in the gallows signal outside of Bewdley North. Would seem to make sense for it to have all happened at once.

A touch o/t but at what point did the GW start not providing distants between station boxes very close together, as in this instance and remains at Shrewsbury?
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby John Hinson » Thu Jun 2, 2016 10:02 am

Distants do not have to be provided on Platform lines between two boxes. This isn't specifically WR practice, it is referred to in the 1960 General Appendix. This arrangement could have existed since time began.

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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby StevieG » Thu Jun 2, 2016 10:51 am

John Hinson wrote:Distants do not have to be provided on Platform lines between two boxes. This isn't specifically WR practice, it is referred to in the 1960 General Appendix. This arrangement could have existed since time began.

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For the possible benefit of less-experienced readers who are not familiar with this element of Bewdley / similar layouts, may I just check/clarify, - we are referring here to platform loop lines between two boxes (although they would of course be depicted by means other than "PL" in the Sect'l.Appdx.); and not second or more through running lines which have a platform between boxes ?
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Thu Jun 2, 2016 2:48 pm

Thanks John, I wasn't aware it was a wider practice. I wonder when it came in?

Shrewsbury which I mentioned earlier is anomalous, because the Up and Dn. mains, which avoid the platforms, do not have distants fixed or otherwise. The Up main doesn't whether you approach it from Chester or Crewe, whilst the Dn. doesn't only when approached from Wolverhampton - from Hereford, the section signal (Seven Bridge's home on that route) can show only a yellow or red.
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Sun Jun 5, 2016 12:06 pm

StevieG wrote:
John Hinson wrote:Distants do not have to be provided on Platform lines between two boxes. This isn't specifically WR practice, it is referred to in the 1960 General Appendix. This arrangement could have existed since time began.

John
For the possible benefit of less-experienced readers who are not familiar with this element of Bewdley / similar layouts, may I just check/clarify, - we are referring here to platform loop lines between two boxes (although they would of course be depicted by means other than "PL" in the Sect'l.Appdx.); and not second or more through running lines which have a platform between boxes ?



Yes I think that is the case. The lines are officially named as Down Main (to Platform 1), Up Main (for platform 2) and Back Road for Platform 3, which is also fully reversible. As far the bracket signal at Bewdley South is concerned only the distant on the centre post of the bracket signal is worked, (for moves towards the Down Main, (Platform 1). The distant on the right hand post of the bracket signal is fixed at caution and applies for moves to the Back Road (Platform 3).
Last edited by Peter Gibbons on Sun Jun 5, 2016 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bewdley South Bracket Signal

Unread postby guard_jamie » Sun Jun 5, 2016 1:42 pm

The situation is the same in the Up direction also - a fixed distant beneath BN's section signal into P3 Back Road, BS's Up distant (working) beneath BN's section signal into P2 Up Main.
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