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North Weald

Signalling on heritage railways

North Weald

Unread postby LT Box Boy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:54 pm

I have been asked through a friend of a friend about an inscription on the lever quadrant, it looks like EIR or perhaps E1R. Can anyone say what it is. TIA

Had a bit of a thought and I could well be answering my own question, I am sure there were E2 frames so perhaps it is E1R. It is not my area of interest.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby JRB » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:35 pm

It could be EIR. Export & inland material did get mixed (lots of 'Irish' wire runners at Banbury Rd. Jc. and BR clamp locks in Hong Kong for example), so that could be East India Railway.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby John Hinson » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:53 pm

Is this inscription on Lever 21's quadrant by any chance?

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Re: North Weald

Unread postby LT Box Boy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

John Hinson wrote:Is this inscription on Lever 21's quadrant by any chance?

John

I'm afraid I don't really know but will try and find out.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby Bob » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:21 pm

The inscription EIR is on the quadrant of number 13 lever.

I went on a visit to the box this morning.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby LT Box Boy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:55 pm

Bob wrote:The inscription EIR is on the quadrant of number 13 lever.

I went on a visit to the box this morning.

Well you must have been with the friend of a friend and like you say lever 13.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby LT Box Boy » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:00 pm

JRB wrote:It could be EIR. Export & inland material did get mixed (lots of 'Irish' wire runners at Banbury Rd. Jc. and BR clamp locks in Hong Kong for example), so that could be East India Railway.

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Many thanks I have been told it is indeed East India Railway.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby John Hinson » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:31 pm

North Weald was a standard GER box with a standard Saxby & Farmer Duplex frame dating from 1888. The reason I asked if the lever was No21 (it could equally have been No 1 under my theory) was that the frame was 20 levers in size until 1949 when it was rebuilt for the Underground and enlarged by one lever. But if it was rebuilt I guess the lever quadrant could have been inserted anywhere and was actually unlikely to be right at the end as end castings are different.

There is absolutely no reason why the GER (or its successor, the LNER) would have East India Railway parts for they would have had a plentiful supply of original parts owing to their frame recycling policy.

However, a source for an additional lever (and associated parts) for the LPTB would be a little more difficult and my suspicions are that they may have had them made as the type was long discontinued. I think it exceedingly unlikely that any East India Railway parts were kicking about awaiting use; personally I feel it far more likely that "EIR" was a local foundry that cast it to order.

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Re: North Weald

Unread postby LT Box Boy » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:13 am

John Hinson wrote:North Weald was a standard GER box with a standard Saxby & Farmer Duplex frame dating from 1888. The reason I asked if the lever was No21 (it could equally have been No 1 under my theory) was that the frame was 20 levers in size until 1949 when it was rebuilt for the Underground and enlarged by one lever. But if it was rebuilt I guess the lever quadrant could have been inserted anywhere and was actually unlikely to be right at the end as end castings are different.

There is absolutely no reason why the GER (or its successor, the LNER) would have East India Railway parts for they would have had a plentiful supply of original parts owing to their frame recycling policy.

However, a source for an additional lever (and associated parts) for the LPTB would be a little more difficult and my suspicions are that they may have had them made as the type was long discontinued. I think it exceedingly unlikely that any East India Railway parts were kicking about awaiting use; personally I feel it far more likely that "EIR" was a local foundry that cast it to order.

John

I suspect that is where we are being taken a different direction and when the frame was altered they used a part and it had the inscription on?
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby hmmueller » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:41 am

The "EIR" can be seen nicely on the 18th picture in my blog posting of that frame - however; I cannot be of any further help ...

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Re: North Weald

Unread postby Pete2320 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:26 pm

I'm going with East India Railway but accept that we'll probably never know how that came about. However, is it just coincidence that the frame (formerley?) in Wye signalbox is marked up GIPR (Great Indian Peninsular Railway) and is also an S&F Duplex frame.

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Re: North Weald

Unread postby EOR S&T » Tue May 26, 2015 8:21 pm

With the box not 20 yards from my living room window i can confirm; the EIR is in the casting of the quadrants between levers 13/14. General opinion is its from a cancelled order, or surplus parts at the time as the box is a standard GER 7 design from 1888.

The frame started life as 20 levers and it would appear that lever 2 is the 1948/9 addition as the quadrant is subtly different (being a little thicker in its casting than the rest) and 'lever 2' has a much wider catch block on it than any of the others. Indicating it is not part of the original frame.

It seems an awful lot of work to add it to this end of the frame, meaning all other functions would need to move left by 1 lever, but that is what they appear to have done.

Its not only the one oddity, the electric locks are 100V AC (WBS D6 version) and driven from the tail of the lever the locks being mounted at about 30 degrees from vertical with massive connection rods to take up the drive. This means they are completely reversed in operation to a normal lever frame! (N slides would act as R slides and vice versa). We have kept this feature despite logic and confusion.......

As for Ongar, levers 1-20 (though 1 has been missing for years) are original, levers 21-30 were added from "Leyton stock'(being randomly numbered 80+, not always having duplex catch handle extensions and different inscriptions in the frame supports) and the whole frame was shuffled to the left to accommodate them.

Ongar does not have the EIR inscription, just the standard S&F legend in the end castings.

Oh how easy it was to make major changes back then!

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Re: North Weald

Unread postby Richard Pike » Tue May 26, 2015 9:55 pm

Eh up Chris! Interesting stuff. If you want to see a real bodge, though unnoticeable from upstairs, try Bellwater Junction.
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby scarpa » Wed May 27, 2015 11:49 am

A point of consideration Stratford Locking fitters in early BR days or LNER would have maintained frames in the Dock areas and early 50 s Ongar line .Leyton shops built and provided alterations to frames till its closure.In those days all servicable parts were saved and re-used.Stratford Southern Junction was a unique frame built in Stratford loco works
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Re: North Weald

Unread postby John Hinson » Wed May 27, 2015 2:22 pm

scarpa wrote:A point of consideration Stratford Locking fitters in early BR days or LNER would have maintained frames in the Dock areas and early 50 s Ongar line .Leyton shops built and provided alterations to frames till its closure.In those days all servicable parts were saved and re-used.Stratford Southern Junction was a unique frame built in Stratford loco works

Are you certain of those various points? North Weald and Ongar were changed to be so "LT" I find it had to imagine BR were involved at all. And Stratford Southern looked a pretty standard McKenzie & Holland frame when I saw it???

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