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Kingscote

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Kingscote

Unread postby Romsey » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:31 pm

I found this link in the Bluebell Railway e-mail newsletter sent today.
http://files.ctctcdn.com/e0ef1eef101/72ce6971-806c-4248-92b8-7ba35abeca24.pdf
A nice tribute to the "temporary" ground level box at Kingscote, replaced after 22 years.

Regards, Neil
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:41 am

I didn't remember it having a Baby Belling AND a microwave. Hope they didn't overload the electrical system if both used at the same time as the kettle!
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Shunter » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:11 am

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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Is Line Clear » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:14 am

I will have to check the Occurrence Books for the date that the 'Temporary' SB was handed over to Operating - I have it in my mind that it was early Summer 1996 as I passed for the box in June that year. When Bluebell opened to Kingscote (1994) it was 'One Engine in Steam' with a 2 lever GF (FPL locked by key on staff and points).

As far as cooking facilities, the microwave was used by those who wanted a quick 'Nuke' of a ready meal, but Belling was for those who wanted a proper meal cooked.
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:36 am

Excellent photos on both links. I like the Short/Long section working indication on the diagram. I don't recall having seen that before. The diagram also bears a legend "No 1229" in the top right hand corner. What does that relate to - some old SR list?

Long time since I was there - I thought it was being called North box at the time. I recollect seeing a mechanical frame (Westinghouse A if memory serves) resplendent in red primer through the window, on which work was discontinued to cater for the East Grinstead extension. So what happened to that frame? I hate to see volunteer effort wasted, but I have to forgive them for the change of plan given the beautiful job they have done on the L frame, and the signalling does of course have to cater for changes in operational needs.
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Fay Singpoint » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:21 pm

Mike Hodgson wrote: The diagram also bears a legend "No 1229" in the top right hand corner. What does that relate to - some old SR list?


1229 is the SR/BR-SR drawing office record ID code for Kingscote. As an equivalent the Western had/used S numbers to prefix all their signalling drawings.

Horsted Keynes is 1347 and Sheffield Park is 1318.
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:37 pm

Thanks Fay
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:23 pm

What I find interesting are the pictures indicated on the link below.

http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellR ... -dQTJ2j5/A

Comparing the box diagram to the Relay Room diagram which I assume will be the intended final layout, and photos of the Westinghouse 'L' frame it would appear that the Kingscote to East Grinstead section will be under the Bluebell railway version of TCB as there are direction of flow arrows and no mention of tokens on the diagram in the relay room.

There appears to be two King Levers which presumably will allow operation into the Up Platform (Main) at Kingscote to / from the Horsted Keynes direction without Kingscote box being open. There will be no run-round facilities though with the box switched out.

The other things to note is the proposed signalling at East Grinstead. From the pictures of the 'L' frame it would appear that there will a 3 aspect signal at the start of the Connecting Line from Network Rail (KC1). Given that this line is used currently as a stabling line for National Rail services, and the fact that it is accessed from position light signals below both OD41 (From East Grinstead National Rail Platform 2) and OD43 (From East Grinstead National Rail Platform 1)signals, which are currently single aspect signals capable of only displaying a red aspect, this signal seems somewhat inappropriate for access to a berthing siding, unless I'm missing something.

Also it is proposed to make signal KC12 a two aspect red/green signal Down (Bluebell) platform Starting, which presumably will require KC13 a three aspect R/Y/G signal to be cleared first(or at least its shunt signal KC14). It seems somewhat odd to have a shunt signal mounted below the main aspect, when the main aspect could be cleared instead, if the line to KC15 is clear, unless once again I'm missing something.
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Mike Stone » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:21 pm

Going slightly off topic I was looking to see if the SA had any instructions regarding method of working from NR, only to find that there is absolutely no mention therein of the Bluebell connection, especially given that the connection is used for stabling, presumably up to the Bluebell's disc?
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Is Line Clear » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:55 pm

Mike Stone wrote:Going slightly off topic I was looking to see if the SA had any instructions regarding method of working from NR, only to find that there is absolutely no mention therein of the Bluebell connection, especially given that the connection is used for stabling, presumably up to the Bluebell's disc?

There is a protocol agreed between Bluebell and NR, which covers movements on and off the Bluebell. Verbal communications between the Bluebell Railway's 'Nominated Person' and Oxted S/B. Only a few people from Bluebell are authorised and OD have their names. CLEAR UNDERSTANDING of course.

Anything incoming is held at either OD41 or OD43 until it is confirmed that the boundary gate is secured open and trap points on Bluebell closed and the Bluebell shunt signal (Bluebell side of gates) is off. Oxted can then clear their signal and train passed through the siding and enters Bluebell territory. Once fully on Bluebell the controlling G/F normalised and locked by removal of Token. Confirmation to Oxted gates closed and secured and train trapped on Bluebell metals.

Same sort of thing for movements the other way and a certain amount of handsignals.
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Peter Gibbons » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:57 pm

Mike Stone wrote:Going slightly off topic I was looking to see if the SA had any instructions regarding method of working from NR, only to find that there is absolutely no mention therein of the Bluebell connection, especially given that the connection is used for stabling, presumably up to the Bluebell's disc?


The siding, which on Oxted Panel is referred to as the up Siding, was not track circuited. The letters 'AW' on the Kingscote Relay Room diagram refer to the section of track circuited line within Platform 1 at East Grinstead (Network Rail) station.The letters TZ refer to the very short section of line between OD41 (Platform 2) and OD43 signal (Platform 1) which converge to form a single siding, immediately beyond the south end of the station to OD324 which is the exit signal from the Up Siding in the opposite direction.

The Up Siding originally extended over Imberhorne Viaduct but only electrified to allow an 8 coach train length. The Up Siding was later cut back to a short distance beyond the termination of the conductor rail and a few sleepers were chained over the rails - no buffer stop was erected. A gate normally locked closed at the BR/Bluebell Railway, marks the point at which the sleepers were chained across the siding.

I believe that an 8 car train berths overnight in the siding and another up to 12 cars berths overnight in Platform 1, so this would normally leave the siding/connecting line vacant during the day. When this is done the signaller places a reminder magnetic label to indicate that the siding is occupied together with how many coaches are occupying the siding.

As I understand it the Bluebell signalling at East Grinstead won't be installed until finance permits, which could be after Oxted Box is abolished.
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Re: Kingscote

Unread postby Is Line Clear » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:03 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:What I find interesting are the pictures indicated on the link below.

http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellR ... -dQTJ2j5/A

Comparing the box diagram to the Relay Room diagram which I assume will be the intended final layout, and photos of the Westinghouse 'L' frame it would appear that the Kingscote to East Grinstead section will be under the Bluebell railway version of TCB as there are direction of flow arrows and no mention of tokens on the diagram in the relay room.

There appears to be two King Levers which presumably will allow operation into the Up Platform (Main) at Kingscote to / from the Horsted Keynes direction without Kingscote box being open. There will be no run-round facilities though with the box switched out.

The other things to note is the proposed signalling at East Grinstead. From the pictures of the 'L' frame it would appear that there will a 3 aspect signal at the start of the Connecting Line from Network Rail (KC1). Given that this line is used currently as a stabling line for National Rail services, and the fact that it is accessed from position light signals below both OD41 (From East Grinstead National Rail Platform 2) and OD43 (From East Grinstead National Rail Platform 1)signals, which are currently single aspect signals capable of only displaying a red aspect, this signal seems somewhat inappropriate for access to a berthing siding, unless I'm missing something.

Also it is proposed to make signal KC12 a two aspect red/green signal Down (Bluebell) platform Starting, which presumably will require KC13 a three aspect R/Y/G signal to be cleared first(or at least its shunt signal KC14). It seems somewhat odd to have a shunt signal mounted below the main aspect, when the main aspect could be cleared instead, if the line to KC15 is clear, unless once again I'm missing something.


Spot on re the King Levers - actually this is same facility as was available from the 'Temporary S/B.

S & T have designed and built for the future, but the future may be a long way off. I am no expert on current practices, so will not speculate on this.
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