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East Lancs Railway

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East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Roger Bell » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:56 pm

Could anyone let me know what is the purpose of what appears to be a mechanical banner repeater disc co-worked with a main stop arm on a bracket signal at Bury Bolton Street station please?
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Stevoid » Thu Nov 3, 2016 4:57 pm

The purpose is to allow platform staff to see the aspect of Bury South's Down Advanced Starting signal (which is inside Bolton St Tunnel), before dispatching a train. I'm not sure whether it counts as an appropriate use of such a banner, but that was the reason given to footplate crew when it was installed.
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Roger Bell » Thu Nov 3, 2016 5:05 pm

Ah thanks Stevoid , ( that must be the quickest reply ever :) ). Is the advanced starter a semaphore or wire worked colour light - I did see the slotting arrangement? Sounds like a good local initiative in the circumstances.
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby John Webb » Thu Nov 3, 2016 5:44 pm

This photo shows the three signals:
East Lancashire Railway, Entrance to Bury Tunnel
Image

© Copyright David Dixon and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
(Click on the photo to go to the larger original.)
This arrangement seems to be relatively new - older pictures on the above website indicate that the track has been altered in the last two or three years to give the arrangement seen above. The signal in the tunnel appears to be a mechanical one?
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Pete2320 » Thu Nov 3, 2016 10:40 pm

No track alterations in the last two or three years, the present layout has been there for ten years or so. The "Advance Starter (which will not be its proper name) is indeed mechanical but has a position light sub reading into Castlecroft Yard, the left hand line beyond the tunnel.

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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Stevoid » Fri Nov 4, 2016 9:30 am

Pete2320 wrote:No track alterations in the last two or three years, the present layout has been there for ten years or so. The "Advance Starter (which will not be its proper name) is indeed mechanical but has a position light sub reading into Castlecroft Yard, the left hand line beyond the tunnel.

Pete

No, it probably isn't the proper name, but that's what's on the lever plate and how it is referred to in route learning courses.

I'd also add that the position light reads either to Castlecroft yard or to the single line occupied (the section signal is on the far side of the tunnel).
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Mike Hodgson » Fri Nov 4, 2016 10:07 am

I always thought the name on the lever plate was how you determined the "proper" name for a signal - even if that doesn't conform to general usage.
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby John Webb » Fri Nov 4, 2016 10:18 am

Pete2320 wrote:No track alterations in the last two or three years, the present layout has been there for ten years or so. The "Advance Starter (which will not be its proper name) is indeed mechanical but has a position light sub reading into Castlecroft Yard, the left hand line beyond the tunnel.

Pete

Thanks. It must just be the angle at which some photos were taken, but they seem to show the track coming in from the other platform joining rather than crossing over the line in question - but on reflection I assume there might be clearance problems if that were the case due to the proximity of the bridge pier.
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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Pete2320 » Fri Nov 4, 2016 12:54 pm

Stevoid wrote:
Pete2320 wrote:The "Advance Starter (which will not be its proper name) is indeed mechanical but has a position light sub reading into Castlecroft Yard, the left hand line beyond the tunnel.

Pete

No, it probably isn't the proper name, but that's what's on the lever plate and how it is referred to in route learning courses.

I'd also add that the position light reads either to Castlecroft yard or to the single line occupied (the section signal is on the far side of the tunnel).

If thats how it's referred to and is the name on the plate then that's it's proper name. I was going on LMS practice whereby all the stop signals would be homes (eg Home 4) and only the last one would be a starter.

John Webb wrote: Thanks. It must just be the angle at which some photos were taken, but they seem to show the track coming in from the other platform joining rather than crossing over the line in question - but on reflection I assume there might be clearance problems if that were the case due to the proximity of the bridge pier.

Clearance is the reason for the present arrangement. It was not like this in BR days but I believe there was a rolling stock restriction on the connection. Possibly C1 not permitted.

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Re: East Lancs Railway

Unread postby Stevoid » Fri Nov 4, 2016 4:14 pm

Pete2320 wrote: If thats how it's referred to and is the name on the plate then that's it's proper name. I was going on LMS practice whereby all the stop signals would be homes (eg Home 4) and only the last one would be a starter.

Ah; ELR practice uses the names home and starting (and inner and outer home), but specifically refers to the section signal as such, and explicitly not as an advanced starter or similar. I believe the ScR may have done this at some point as well, but I'm not sure.
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