Signals

THE SIGNAL BOX


Railway signalling discussion

'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Signalling on heritage railways

'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby John Webb » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:30 am

I mention this excellent documentary here as the signalling side of things got some specific mentions from the engine crew, including the token exchanges, the sighting of signals by the driver and fireman, the white light at an AOCL and even a concise explanation of tokenless block working between Bewdley South and Kidderminster. Worth a look when repeated at 9pm on BBC4 New Year's Day.
John Webb
(Member, St Albans Signalbox Trust)
User avatar
John Webb
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Jul 8, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: St Albans, Herts

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby John Hinson » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:51 am

John Webb wrote:and even a concise explanation of tokenless block working between Bewdley South and Kidderminster.

Shhh, don't tell them it isn't Tokenless Block but TCB Single Line . . .

J
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6859
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby Russell Maiden » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:48 pm

It's actually Acceptance Lever working - trains are offered and accepted (or not as the case may be) rather than just being described, with the Acceptance Lever at the box in advance being reversed to 'accept' a train, but no conventional block instruments as used with Direction Levers.
Russell Maiden
User avatar
Russell Maiden
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: London

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby John Webb » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:25 pm

Russell Maiden wrote:It's actually Acceptance Lever working - trains are offered and accepted (or not as the case may be) rather than just being described, with the Acceptance Lever at the box in advance being reversed to 'accept' a train, but no conventional block instruments as used with Direction Levers.

Ah! I wasn't listening quite closely enough to the programme - on replaying it the driver, as they pass Bewdley South box, actually says that they are not picking up a token as there is another system "Tokenless block by Acceptance Lever. It's all done electrically." covering the section from Bewdley to Kidderminster.
John Webb
(Member, St Albans Signalbox Trust)
User avatar
John Webb
Main line box
Main line box
 
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Jul 8, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: St Albans, Herts

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby John Hinson » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:10 pm

Russell Maiden wrote:It's actually Acceptance Lever working

Correct me if I am wrong but I understood that the official term is Track Circuit Block (Single Line) whether acceptance levers are provided or not. Perhaps the SVR Regulations vary from main line practice, or maybe things have changed in recent years?

John Webb wrote:Ah! I wasn't listening quite closely enough to the programme - on replaying it the driver, as they pass Bewdley South box, actually says that they are not picking up a token as there is another system "Tokenless block by Acceptance Lever. It's all done electrically." covering the section from Bewdley to Kidderminster.

But it is still not "Tokenless Block" which is a completely different system.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6859
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby Russell Maiden » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:39 pm

The latest incarnation of this method of working single lines may well be 'TCB on Single Lines', but, being a heritage railway we use heritage terminology. The basis for the SVR's Acceptance Lever working is the BR(WR) Circulars XR 579, headed 'Regulations for Train Signalling on Single Lines worked by Acceptance Levers', and XR 580, 'Single Lines worked by Acceptance Levers - Instructions to Trainmen and Others', dated June 1961.
Russell Maiden
User avatar
Russell Maiden
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Nov 9, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: London

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby John Hinson » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:36 am

Russell Maiden wrote:The latest incarnation of this method of working single lines may well be 'TCB on Single Lines', but, being a heritage railway we use heritage terminology. The basis for the SVR's Acceptance Lever working is the BR(WR) Circulars XR 579, headed 'Regulations for Train Signalling on Single Lines worked by Acceptance Levers', and XR 580, 'Single Lines worked by Acceptance Levers - Instructions to Trainmen and Others', dated June 1961.

Fair enough . . . thanks.

John
Image
‹(•¿•)›
User avatar
John Hinson
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6859
Joined: Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: at my computer

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby mossend4 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:12 am

I watched the TV programme. The factors which left the deepest impression on me were (1) the constant verbal interchange between Driver and Fireman on the footplate on the aspect displayed by signals they were approaching, and some surprise at the use of 'red' and 'green' for semaphore signals during daylight hours ('the "red" banner signal!); and (2) the whistle, otherwise in almost constant use during the journey, wasn't used (twice) when approaching a stop signal at danger and (twice), when those same signals had been cleared (after being brought to a stand by them).

I wondered if other arrangements applied on Heritage lines, and / or had these footplate men been habituated into adopting 'universal' terms from running over MAS main lines.
mossend4
Branch line box
Branch line box
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Oct 6, 2011 10:54 am

Re: 'Flying Scotsman' on the Seven Valley Railway - BBC4

Unread postby kbarber » Sun Jan 1, 2017 9:55 am

Russell Maiden wrote:The latest incarnation of this method of working single lines may well be 'TCB on Single Lines', but, being a heritage railway we use heritage terminology. The basis for the SVR's Acceptance Lever working is the BR(WR) Circulars XR 579, headed 'Regulations for Train Signalling on Single Lines worked by Acceptance Levers', and XR 580, 'Single Lines worked by Acceptance Levers - Instructions to Trainmen and Others', dated June 1961.

The same terminology was used in the Colchester/St Botolphs area for the single lines there; somewhere I have a set of instructions dated for the early '60s (was it done as early as '61?) that, as far as I recall, replicate the SVR instructions exactly (including references to 'lowering' signals!) That particular feature makes me wonder if the ER borrowed the WR instructions rather than going to the bother of thinking up their own.
User avatar
kbarber
Rest-day relief
Rest-day relief
 
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:12 pm
Location: London


Return to Signalling - heritage railways

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests