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Call Attention before TES ?

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby RDNA » Sun Feb 5, 2017 11:49 am

The only "Telegraph Bell" working that survived into later years was on lines classed as sidings worked on the "No Block" system.

John


As always there is an exception - in 1974 I was working Bell Lane in Leicester, the Goods Lines were equipped with 'Main Arms' throughout but the methods of working were as follows - Humberstone Road Junction to Bell Lane - Permissive Goods; Bell Lane to Leicester North and Leicester North to London Road Junction - No Block (with bells); London Road Junction to Knighton South Junction - Absolute Block (Knighton Tunnel was in the section).

There was nothing, other than their knowledge of the sectional appendix, to alert train crews to anything in the sections ahead between Bell Lane - Leicester North - London Road Junction and vice versa.

So far as I am aware this continued until Leicester PSB was commissioned.

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby John Hinson » Sun Feb 5, 2017 1:30 pm

RDNA wrote:There was nothing, other than their knowledge of the sectional appendix, to alert train crews to anything in the sections ahead between Bell Lane - Leicester North - London Road Junction and vice versa.

Although drivers are required to have knowledge of both route and Rule Book (and associated publications) as a matter of course that statement is not actually true. The 1960 Sectional Appendix described the sections as "Telegraph Bell" working and specifically required trains to be stopped and verbally advised of the state of the section if occupied.

By 1969, the standard "No Block" regulations applied and the lines were effectively worked as sidings. Full size arms on "No Block" lines do not indicate the line is clear.

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby RDNA » Mon Feb 6, 2017 10:39 am

Although drivers are required to have knowledge of both route and Rule Book (and associated publications) as a matter of course that statement is not actually true. The 1960 Sectional Appendix described the sections as "Telegraph Bell" working and specifically required trains to be stopped and verbally advised of the state of the section if occupied.


I've just had a look at the 1960 Midland Lines Sectional Appendix John - the Goods Lines sections London Road Junction - Leicester North - Engine Shed Sidings - Bell Lane are shown 'NB' in Table A, although not listed in Table C as "Lines not worked by any Block System", there is no mention of "Telegraph Bells" in that book.

It was incumbent on a driver presented with a cleared main arm as he approached these sections to understand that there may be another train(s) in section.

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby John Hinson » Mon Feb 6, 2017 11:34 am

RDNA wrote:I've just had a look at the 1960 Midland Lines Sectional Appendix John - the Goods Lines sections London Road Junction - Leicester North - Engine Shed Sidings - Bell Lane are shown 'NB' in Table A, although not listed in Table C as "Lines not worked by any Block System", there is no mention of "Telegraph Bells" in that book.

You are absolutely right! I'm not sure how I came to think that - I had just studied the 1960 SA upstairs before coming down to write my reply.

So, yes, the "No Block" system applied London Road through to Bell Lane by 1960 and remained until resignalling which means trains were described by bell but no other action required. The "No Block" system is detailed in the General Appendix (page 22) and is quite specific in stating ". . . drivers working over these lines will not receive any Caution signal on entering thereon, whether the line is occupied or not . . ." so I don't see any issue. There were other places in the UK where similar circumstances existed, outside MR territory.

Nor can I find the any reference in 1960 to working of lines by "Telegraph Bell" which I remember reading only the other day! At the time I was surprised to find it as I had previously suspected all remaining TB working had been transferred to local instructions by then. One day, with more time on my hands than now, I shall hopefully find it again.

Meanwhile, sorry for the confusion.

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby John Hinson » Thu Feb 9, 2017 11:27 am

OK . . . I have now had time to find the reference to Telegraph Bell working in 1960, it is indeed in the 1960 Midland Lines Sectional Appendix (page 307) as "Instructions to Trainmen relating to the Regulations for Train Signalling by Telegraph Bells". Until finding this I had previously assumed TB working was discontinued in 1960 other than by local instruction.

So the question arises as to what lines this did apply to, as Table A does not seem to have any references to TB working (from a quick glance). Did it indeed apply (at this date) to all lines formerly so-signalled shown as "NB", which would include Leicester?

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby RDNA » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:58 am

Hi John,

I had a look to see what the 1960 appendix said about the Erewash Valley Goods Lines in response to earlier posts in this thread, they are all shown permissive or absolute (sometimes when intermediate boxes were out of circuit) BUT sneaking in on the 2nd Down Goods Toton Centre to Down Sidings North(Signals 2nd Down Goods Only) and on to Stapleford & Sandiacre Station box is "TB". However there is no mention of "TB" in the 'Explanation of References' at the head of Table A.

So.... mistake or intentional?

edit - Just had a look at the instruction on page 307 and it specifically mentions the Toton boxes.

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby John Hinson » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:27 pm

Thanks - looks like that answers things then.

Mistake, I suspect. A few boo-boos slipped in on various areas' SAs at 1960.

Best regards,

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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby ge.signals » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:16 pm

On the GER it was official that Call Attention was NOT used before TES and the late Alan Skellern, a former signalman, told an interesting story in SRS Signalling Record 122 where he wrote:

"On the former Great Eastern lines from Liverpool Street which were signalled by Sykes Lock and Block, it was official for the 'Call Attention' bell signal not to be used. This method of working was still in operation until the BR Standard Block Regulations were brought into use. When the LNER brought out its Standard Block Regulations in the mid 1920s, it sought to bring the Sykes Lock and Block into line. This did not go down well with GE men, who none the less complied with the ruling. However, having worked to GE Sykes Lock and Block Regulations for years, they had considerable trouble in working to the new regulations to the extent that from midnight on the day of bringing it into use to about 6 am, the train service was in chaos from that time through the rush hour to just after 10 am. It got a lot worse, so much so that the District Superintendent in Liverpool Street sent out a telephone message to the effect that GE Lock and Block Regulations were to be reinstated immediately and that a written notice would follow. Even in the 1950s, former Great Eastern men recounted this event with glee."
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Re: Call Attention before TES ?

Unread postby John Hinson » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:56 pm

Yes, well, I heard similar stories at Carlisle. Some signalmen liked to brag about things liike that. But in my experience the busier the box, the more important (and efficient) it was to use call attention.

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