Railway signalling discussion

Old Kent Road Plate - Help Needed Please

British signalling of the past (UK, excepting Northern Ireland)

Re: Old Kent Road Plate - Help Needed Please

Unread postby lemmo » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:34 am

I believe this is Deptford Lift Bridge, with the tracks being lifted.

The line to the right under the bridge is to New Cross Gate via Cold Blow Crossing, although the route to Peckham Rye split just beyond the underpass, so presumably this was controlled from Deptford Lift Bridge. The line to the left went to sidings and the line rising in the middle to the embankment is the Down to New Cross Gate.

The PDF diagram attached to the Bricklayers Arms Jn page on Westinghouse indicates the next box up is Deptford Lift Bridge, which reflects the renaming from New Cross Lift Bridge in the 1920s as discussed above.

So an interesting spot: a busy branch, multiple routes, ground frames scattered and a bridge in the midst. Is there a diagram extant?
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Re: Old Kent Road Plate - Help Needed Please

Unread postby GeoffSmith » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:11 am

The SRS SR SB Register calls the box "Deptford Lift Bridge", opened "00.00.1873" and says it was "also known as New Cross Lift Bridge", but makes no mention of "Lift Bridge".
A list of signal boxes was provided in the January 1878 LBSCR WTT, but, annoyingly, does not show the Lift Bridge, nor does it appear in the lists in the Appendices from 1879 to 1901, which seems an awfully long time for an omission to be perpetuated.
Appendices from June 1910 to August 1922, and the SR 1934 edition, all have "Lift Bridge".
Some show
"New Cross -
Lift Bridge"
which style has caused confusion elsewhere, so might be the source of the aka.
Where the 1920-28 date for renaming to "Deptford Lift Bridge" comes from would be interesting to know. In all the pictures I've seen the nameplate says "Lift Bridge".

My notes (from a time when I didn't always record the sources) say that Wharf Road Up side and Wharf Road Down side were worked using Sykes Single Line Block, whereas "Tyers Block to EL Up Junc, Wharf Road up & down sides" was given earlier. Clarification would be welcomed, as would the method of working the second single line on the Up side from East London Up Junction via Coldblow Crossing to Lift Bridge.
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Re: Old Kent Road Plate - Help Needed Please

Unread postby John Hinson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:45 am

I think one has to be relaxed about box names. Sometimes the exterior boards do not match the title on the box diagram. The names of boxes may have been taken from the Sectional Appendices, where it was nortmal to list them there under their parent station, so if the box name was just "Lift Bridge" but it came under the SM at New Cross, it might be listed as:
New Cross
.....Lift Bridge
which could lead to the assumption that the name was "New Cross Lift Bridge" because other boxes might be listed as:
New Cross

And if a re-organisation at some date passed the responsibility for "Lift Bridge" to the Deptford SM . . . need I write more?

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Re: Old Kent Road Plate - Help Needed Please

Unread postby John Webb » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:43 pm

The bridge was close to the rather loosely defined boundary between New Cross and Deptford, so changes in name might be expected. There was no chance of confusion with the Deptford Creek bridge close to Greenwich station - the ground frame unlocking that bridge was released by a key obtained from the nearby Greenwich signal box after running signals had been placed at danger.
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